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采访对象:艾伟/Interviewed: Ai Wei

*Video:艾偉01

 

采访对象:艾伟, 武汉宏伟地产公司经理

时间: 2005115

地点: 武汉

(资产 地产 不动产 房产)    property(land real estate)    16

消费 consume consumption 13

社会 society 11

物质 material 13

观念 concept 8

跟风(潮)   faddism 3

国外 abroad foreign 7

条件 condition 8

信仰 belief 9

历史 history 4

文化 culture 5

欲望 desire 5

精神 mental mind spirit 7

(宗)教 religion 6

身体 body 3

享受 enjoy 5

阶层 social classes 3

开放(公开) open 3

客户 clientele 2

有钱 richness 2

信誉 prestige 2

商品 commercial 2

美女 beautiful girls 2

fussy 2

贷款 loan 1

抵押 mortgage 1

体面 propriety 1

代理 agent 1

体制 security 1

本能 basic need 1

娱乐 entertainments 1

现代 modern 1

信息 information 2

保障 guarantee 2

艾伟:我做地产代理这行实际上已经有将近7年的时间了,而且中国国内人的状态都是朦朦胧胧的,很。不管我们接触的客户也好,还是公司年轻的员工,才20多岁,整个心态都。而且我们的客户表现在消费上的观念行为并不成熟。而且中国消费跟风潮非常厉害。就是说,实际上中国的房地产这两年的涨势非常飞快,很多情况下也是盲目的跟风,而且在购房选房中无目的的跟风比较明显。特别是中国的房地产这种消费观念国外消费观念完全是不一样的。判断中国的房地产消费不能用国外的标准和习惯。在中国,有钱的人最直接的体现就是要有资产地产不动产,是中国人表现富有最直接的一方面。还有很重要的一方面,就是中国还没有很大的信誉体系构造前提下,那么能够体现人最基本的信誉保障就是房。你跑出去向别人借钱,找银行贷款也好,要拿资产抵押,什么是资产,就是房。从这种角度来出发,中国的房地产开发它不仅仅是一个住的空间,一个载体了。它存在一个信用的一个载体,而且是能够体现自己资产体面的一个载体,住在什么地方,直接体现他的身份,中国很多人买房,他不是为了住外国人看见没有人住,空置率很高,或者泡沫很严重。其实上完全不是这么回事,它就像把钱存到银行里是一样的,这个概念是一样的。中国突然从一个封闭的社会向一个开放商品社会转换,不管是在共产党严密管理下的思想上的教说情况下突然一下放开。人的需求是本能的释放,不是什么世风日下的这种观念。它可能暂时在这一点上是这样子,但整体看来它是一个必然的过程。比如说看三亚的世界小姐选美比赛,外国的美女,眼里都是柔光,看中国的美女眼里都是凶光,也可以说是很锐利的目光。那在这些目光里藏的是什么呢?肯定是宝马豪宅金钱。那么实际上就是满眼都是欲望。整个社会是没有能力去抵御或者分析我应该接受什么或不接受什么。现在就是我整个接受它,我不担心整个社会会到欲望横流的时候。因为中国五千年积累的传统,绝对不会因为这短短20年商品文化就被冲刷掉的。在整个商业时间里面它会淘洗。现在国民不成熟的这种消费观念,或者过度与物质化的这种消费观念实际上到了你有一定物质基础的时候必然就会好,也就是它实际上是历史长河里你必须走的一步,我不担心这个问题。老一点的人担心它是因为他受的教育,他所不能接受的。但从时间上是可以接受的。因为中国到现在多数人吃饭还是用筷子,用筷子的这双手,哪怕是暂时用刀叉吃东西,操作的习惯绝对是用筷子的习惯。这件事反映了文化底蕴的东西,中国的文化底蕴太深厚了,所有外来文化都能同化。哪怕现在这种消费观念,最后在中国大陆里进行一个淘洗,然后走上一个比较正常的轨道。实际上在中国,对身体享受这些东西,在中国人骨子里和中国以前社会是存在的,只是阶层分化比较明显。它的阶层身体消费程度和形式不一样,比如士大夫,他们对那种游山玩水,歌伎啊什么东西,他从那个层面去消化它,那更下一层他们的娱乐方式就不一样了。到我们现代这个社会开放程度非常高了,每个阶层做每个事情的时候,任何人都会知道,他交流的程序都很公开。就像电影手机里费默说的一句话,如果是在农业社会,我出去一两年做什么都是可以成立的。但在我们这个社会,包括我们消费的一些东西,包括一些身体的一些享受。在以前的中国社会历史里面都是存在的,只是说形式不一样而已。中国目前所有消费的这种东西都能在中国以前的历史中找到相似的东西,只是现在因为信息爆炸,公开的东西太多了,大家了解程度太高了,欲望变得好像非常强烈,些人对这种享受的东西,只要物质达到了一定的基础都会去追求一些享受。只是以前享受的形式就是骑马啦,听歌做诗什么的。而现在就是唱歌啊,对物质的拥有啊。我觉得把中国许多事情放到历史里面去看待它的话,都不会觉得很奇怪。

徐坦:都是自然而然发生的。

艾伟:对,只是现在所做的事比以前的更过分而已。任何一种欲望不能让你压住或反对它。我觉得两个方面,首先他没有这个物质条件,另外一个是在那一代人的脑筋里是有信仰的。如马克思、毛泽东思想,而且社会保障体制比较完善,它能满足中国人最基本的那种精神需求。他生活非常安逸,因为信仰的关系。他可能不去追求物质,首先到达到一个精神层次,首先要从物质上面有个质变过程,然后精神上才有个质变;第二他物质条件比较贫乏;第三整个社会创造了一种氛围让你不去想更多的东西。

徐坦:因为一旦条件变了,即使你有信仰也会很危险。真正的条件会摧毁这种过去时代带来的信仰。那个年代我们会认为要建立反对那种极权的系统。但实际上不用你去反对,这个条件是足以摧毁那些不合时宜的思想和信仰

艾伟:还有就是我们老担心我们的这种欲望太强烈,会不会对后一代有什么影响。国内和国外是不一样,国外是有宗教信仰,但在中国,不管是佛教还是道教,他不是宗教。在没有信仰的国家里,用什么去评判他的这种道德,终究还是要依靠到文化这个层面上来。这就是中国的消费观念,你不能和国外比,用国外的标准来评价,实际上中国再经过二十年的发展,真正到了欧洲的消费水平,自然有些东西就会消亡,而且人们素质对精神层面的要求必然会成熟。我们也会看到现在有些有钱的人也会去做一些宗教信仰的事,基督教天主教佛教……不管最终是否正确,他都会去做这个事。因为他觉得物质基础满足以后,必须要在一个精神层面上来有个寄托,越是物质财富越多,没有精神寄托。物质对他来说就像一把双刃剑一样是可以杀他,他就越觉得没有成就感。

徐坦:从我们的交谈中,从你那里我充分体会到物质生活条件的改变决定了我们的精神生活。

哪怕你原来你有一个很坚如磐石的,特殊材料构成的人的信仰也会被这个条件所改变。

而且这种改变还会随物质的改变还会达到一个新的情况。你觉得这种你的看法是否代表了很广泛的这一代的企业家、实业家或一般的青年人的想法?

艾伟:这个没有交流过。

 

Interviewed: Ai Wei, manager of Hong Wei Real Estate Ltd

Location: Wuhan

Time: January 15 2005

(资产 地产 不动产 房产)    property(land real estate)    16

消费 consume consumption 13

社会 society 11

物质 material 13

观念 concept 8

跟风(潮)   faddism 3

国外 abroad foreign 7

条件 condition 8

信仰 belief 9

历史 history 4

文化 culture 5

欲望 desire 5

精神 mental mind spirit 7

(宗)教 religion 6

身体 body 3

享受 enjoy 5

阶层 social classes 3

开放(公开) open 3

 

客户 clientele 1

有钱 richness 2

信誉 credit 2

商品 commercial 2

美女 beautiful girls 2

fussy 2

贷款 loan 1

抵押 mortgage 1

体面 propriety 1

代理 agent 1

体制 security 1

本能 basic need 1

娱乐 entertainments 1

现代 modern 1

信息 information 2

保障 guarantee 2

 

Ai Wei: I have been working as a real estate agent for almost 7 years.And, the Chinese are in a fussy condition, like our clients or the young employees, Only in their 20s, but they are all fussy.The consuming behavior of our clientele is still premature.In China there is a strong trend of faddism in the view of consumption. In fact, Chinese real estate is booming these two years, But frequently it is a sort of faddism. It becomes even more obvious in the select and purchase. First of all, Chinese consuming conception is totally different from that in the West.You can not judge Chinese real estate consumption with western standards. In China, the representation of richness is property, land, and estate.The clearest sign of fortune. Being so long in the business, I feel like that Even china is in a vivid discussion about real estate bubble, I still think that the Chinese real estate just has started.Another point, China still lacks a well-structured credit system;in this case, real estate stands for one’s guarantee.If you borrow money for someone, or apply for a bank loan, you will need mortgage. What is it? Real estate.Thus, real estate is not only a carrier of housing,But also a carrier of credit, furthermore, an honorable carrier that represents one’s richness. Tell me where you live, how well you live, I will tell you who you are. Many Chinese buy houses, but not for living. Foreigners see empty houses and think it is a bubble. It is not true.It is the same as saving money in the bank.China took a leap from a blocked out society to an open, commercial society. The minds that were under the strict control of CCP suddenly open up.The release of desire is a basic need of humans.It has nothing to do with putridness. Maybe at this point. But it is a necessary step.For instance, in the Miss World contest in Sanya, When we look into foreign beautiful girls’ eyes, we see tenderness, While in Chinese beautiful girls’ eyes, we see atrocity, or should I say sharpness. What is hidden in their eyes? BMW, mansions, cash. In fact they are eyes full of desire. The whole society is unable to resist or analyze what we should accept or should not.I am accepting all. I am not worried about the putridness of the society. Because the Chinese tradition accumulated during 5000 years, cannot be wiped out by those 20 years of commercial culture. It is a process of elimination In fact, the premature consuming conception, Or the over material conception, will be better as long as we have a better material foundation. It is a must-cross in the river of history. I’m not worried about it. The elderly worry because of the education they received cannot take it, but it is acceptable for time.The reason why I am optimistic is that most of the Chinese still eat with chopsticks. Their hands re used to chopsticks. Even they eat sometime with knives and forks. They use them in a way as they are using chopsticks. It reflects the cultural accumulation. The accumulation of Chinese culture is so profound. It can assimilate any alien culture. So this consuming conception will get on the right way after being selected in China. Sensualism has always existed in the heart of the Chinese and in the ancient society, But it varies in different social classes. It varies in the extent and the form of body consumption. For example, the scholars enjoy sightseeing and geishas, While other classes have other entertainments. Our modern society is widely open. Every thing done by anybody could be know by everyone. The communication is open. Like Fei Mo said in <Cell phone>, ‘In the agricultural society, anything I have done could be true, as long as I am away. ’Everything we are consuming, merchandises, physical entertaining, Have already existed in ancient Chinese history, maybe in a different form. Everything we are consuming, we can find it in Chinese history. Only because information is exploding, so many are published, so well that we know each other, desire seems to be stronger. Once the material production has reached a certain level, people pursue other enjoyments. They used to be riding a horse, listening to a song or composing a poem, now they are karaoke, possession of products. I don’t think a lot things will be bizarre if we look at them with a view of history.

 

Xu Tan: Everything is natural.

 

Ai Wei: Yes, just more brutal.You can’t oppose or oppress any desire.I am thinking two reasons. At first, they did not have the condition. On the other hand, that generation had a belief on their mind,

Such as Marxism, Maoism, and the social guarantee security was relatively complete.It satisfied the basic spiritual needs of the Chinese. They were living an easeful life and because of the belief, it was possible not to pursue the material. First moving forward on the mind, and an achievement on the material level, Then the achievement on the mind. In the era, firstly you didn’t have the access to the new creation; Secondly the material condition was poor; Thirdly the society created an atmosphere that prevented you from thinking about more.

 

Xu Tan: once the condition has changed, it would be dangerous even with the belief. The real condition will destroy the belief from the past.We thought we had to oppose to totalitarianism, but we did not. The condition itself is enough to destroy any thoughts and beliefs that are out of time.

 

Ai Wei: One more thing is that we are always worried about if our desire gets overwhelming, It will influence the next generation. But China is different from abroad. Abroad there are religions, in China, neither of Buddhism or Daoism is considered a religion. What judges moral in a country without belief? It is culture. This is the Chinese consuming conception. It cannot be compared with alien conception, or judged with alien standards. 20 years from now, when China is on the same consumption level as Europe, something will vanish, naturally. The demand of mind will be also mature. We will see the rich doing religious things, Christian, catholic, Buddhist… Whether it is correct, they will do it.Because they think when the material is fulfilled, They mentally need to rely on something. The more material they own, if they do not have a mental support, The material will kill them, as it was a two-blade sword, Thus, the less accomplished they feel.

 

Xu Tan: From our conversation, I perfectly understand that the change of material determine our spirit. Even if you are a toughest person made of special material, You will be changed by the condition.And this sort of changes will reach a new extent along with the material. Do you think you represent a vast part of entrepreneurs, industrialists and common youth?

 

Ai Wei: I haven’t communicated with them.

 

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