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group 集体[ji ti]

1.我对集体是很恐惧的,因为我曾经当过兵,跟60多在一起过好几年,我觉得它给我带来的遗产有两个,一个就是痛恨一致,我认为所有的东西,无论是内在的还是形式上的一致,对我来讲好像心里上都有一种天生的免疫,我基本上觉得这个肯定就是有问题的,第二个就是对集体保持一种怀疑

I myself am frightened by collectives, because I used to serve in the military, and I lived together with over 60 persons for many years. I’m left with two aftereffects from that experience. The first one is my hatred for homogeneity. I think I’m naturally immune to all things homogenous, either internally or externally. Basically I think a positive view on homogeneity is itself questionable. The second one is my suspicion for collectives.

(摘自徐坦对汪建伟的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Wang Jianwei)

Interviewed: Xie Fangming

Time: Afternoon, Jan. 29, 2007

Location: Cave Cafe, 798 Art District, Beijing

 

 

集体 group 15

利益 profit 4

社会 society social 13

生活 life 5

公众 public 6

大众 the masses 2

普通人 ordinary person 6

别人 others other people someone else somebody else 15

自己 self 22

关系 connection (relationship) to do with relations 20

有关 related 9

当代 the state of contemporary contemporary 17

 

严打 crackdowns 1

政府 government 2

 

do” engage in 5

兴趣 interest interested 9

prosperous hyped 3

circle 8

圈子 circle 2

过瘾 high 3

流行 popular trendyfad trendiness 3

money 4

猥琐 indecency 2

 

 

Source of keywords:

 

 

Q: First, what’s your overall impression of the current state of contemporary art in China?

 

A: It’s hard to talk about the entire situation. I just feel it’s a little hyped. There is a lot of group activity. Other than that, there is nothing special I want to say, because what we usually see are just very trendy things.

 

Q: What do you think is the relation between the fashion and art?

 

A: Art… at first we didn’t exactly know what art is. It’s just taking advantage of one another. People know there’s such a thing called art, and then use it do certain things related to profit. If everybody aims at the same thing… Other than that, there is no conflict between art and fad, it’s the same thing. In other words, after profit and art make a connection, trendiness is the result.

 

Q: You said earlier that you feel contemporary art in China is very hyped. What aspects were you referring to?

 

A: It’s a matter of external factors, and has little to do with internal factors. It’s other people’s demands. Other people‘s profit has made a certain impact on contemporary Chinese society. Sometimes, something from overseas pays a lot of attention to the contemporary Chinese art. And more and more people are managing the circulation of the works of contemporary art in China. Now, everyone is talking about China, or Chinese art. In fact, this is the same thing as mining – where is suitable for mining? It’s not certain whether you can mine something good. As for internal factors, I think contemporary Chinese art is far, far away from being capable on such a level. It doesn’t have that energy. We can only say that it’s the external factors that make it run. It’s like a laundry machine – you throw your clothes in, and it’s only the tumbler that makes the laundry appear to be spinning so fast. The fact is, it doesn’t have that momentum in itself.

 

Q: What’s your view on the art circle in Beijing?

 

A: There are lots of circles in Beijing. But I found that the main circle is a group of close friends with good friendship. I think that’s probably the main group. Another possible group is the one [that's closer to] in close relations with the critics and curators – there’s some possible motives involved. Or there is a group that’s closer to the galleries, like a few gallery owners and agents. And some artists have a good relationship or collaboration with them, which is in fact a profit relationship. And in Beijing, many artists here are migrants. People need mutual support when in solitude. If seen from this angle, there forms a group that’s like an administration office for non-locals. Those are the two types of groups.

 

Q: So you’re saying that under most circumstances here in Beijing, each artist is merely a member of a group, and unimportant in himself?

 

A: I feel this is the best state, that is, no one feels himself to be really formidable, not a single one. Because when resources come, it dissolves immediately… just like water poured into sand – it’s gone right away. You can’t see anything.

 

Q: You are living, as a matter of fact, in art circle?

 

A: More or less. If you really go to other circles, you’ll find that their game ruled are not suitable for you, and it’s not really a matter of acceptance. For example, the film circle that I saw; I feel that kind of weakness is even much more severe than any one of us artists. I just couldn’t bear listening to the kind of stories they tell. And if they even talked about film – for Christ’s sake, it got me really impatient, even more impatient than a complete outsider. So, in comparison, artists are somewhat more like intellectuals, although… Because artists are concerned about how he is structured, how to shape himself. I think this at least is good. Artists are relatively nice, and have more fun.

 

Q: Did you just say that the state of the society has no impact on your art?

 

A: How shall I put it… Certain things don’t influence you directly, but some other things do. For example, sometimes Beijing goes into a state of tension, like during government crackdowns. Then you start to feel a bit like “white terror”. Then you feel you are influenced. Other than that, the influence is indirect.

 

Q: You said that the general public in China can’t easily understand your art, and you don’t really care for such interaction, right?

 

A: No, not only my work. Most artists’ works are not understood. That is very normal. First of all, you’re not an ordinary person – no, I can’t put it that way – you’re not someone else, so you cannot create something that would fully interest somebody else. You can only see if others are interested in something you make. It can only be like this; that is, others are active, and you are passive. All you can do is to do a performance in nude, and the question remains whether people are interested in your nudity. That’s all.

 

Q: You have been doing painting before coming to Beijing, right? Over years, the social circumstances and the public have changed their views on contemporary art. Please comment on this from a more emotional vantage point.

 

A: This is a good question. Actually, I feel the audience has been well trained over all these years. In Beijing there is still audience who likes art. They are influenced because there are more exhibitions here, including government sponsored exhibitions, such as the exhibition from American museums, the exhibition on Italian Renaissance, and the exhibition on 19th-century Russian painting – all this hodgepodge of exhibitions. So the audience comes to accept them gradually – he might not really enjoy them, but he accepts the situation. He feels its richness. He might not understand it better, but he is more tolerant. In contrast, in the realm of contemporary art, the audience simply cannot be trained. Because under this particular social system and social condition at the present moment, it’s difficult for people to understand what is “contemporary.” First, put aside the question of what contemporary art is. Just as a person, an ordinary person, he doesn’t even know what he needs in this society. How can he know what contemporary art is? Now in China we see more and more training in the quasi-occupational social labor. The average young people getting prepared for the dedication into these 12-hour work day situations, either quasi-occupational or those of pyramid selling. He has no imagination about his own life, he is a stranger to art, yet one thing is good – he can accept whatever you give him.

 

There are lots of audience who talks to you about art… What is this art for? Have you painted the human body before? What do you feel when painting the human body? Can you make money at all with this painting? Anyway, the public‘s appetite for [triviality] indecency is much stronger than that of the artist. They really enjoy asking about everything.

 

Q: The art market is very “prosperous” now. How does it affect your art creation?

 

A: If I were to accept that many orders for works, then it’ll certainly have an impact. Of course, by then, when you have so much money, will you still want to paint? You’ll feel painting is such a clumsy job. When you have so much money, you wouldn’t need to paint yourself; you could totally have someone else do it for you. Because by then, it’s the other things that get you high. You would no longer get high on your painting; you’d get high on money.

grew up 成长, 长大[cheng zhang, zhang da]

我觉得像我这代人好像不太喜欢出去,而是花更多的时间在自己的城市或国家里面呆着、看着,因为是处于激烈变化的阶段。各种信息都可以是一种唤醒你去创作的关键因素,而不是说我需要去寻找创作的刺激,所以我愿意在这个城市。因为从我成长到现在它一直在积累、在变化,我已经习惯了这种速度刺激度。我觉得它好像一口,离不开居住地。

My generation doesn’t seem to like to go abroad, instead we prefer to spend time in our own cities or countries to observe. This is a time of drastic changes, and there are a myriad of information to stimulate your creation, that’s why I’m willing to stay in this city. The city has been accumulating and changing as I grew up, and I’m used to the speed and excitement of it. For me, it’s like a well deeply rooted in the residence.

(摘自徐坦对曹蕾的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Cao Lei)

Interviewed: Cao Lei

Time: Evening, January 31, 2007

Location: The blue building, SOHO New Town, Beijing

 

社会 society social 23

关系 relationship involved with 16

珠三角 Pearl River Delta 12

成长 长大 grew up 12

love 11

年青 young 10

合作 collaboration 9

影响 (作用) influence 9

普通人,观众,村民average (people, audience, villager) 7

环境 surrounding 11

自己 self 30

自我 myself 1

乌托邦 utopia 5

艺术圈 art circle 4

交流 communication 6

现实 现状 reality (realism) 12

现实主义 reality realism 2

国家 country 5+

fast 3

 

招安 sold souls 1

独立 independence 6

 

 

个人()   individual personal 12

中国 China Chinese 10

西方 the West 4

情感qinggan)    emotion 10

感情(ganqing) feeling 3

年代 时代 age 14

时尚 hippest fashion 7

流行 popular 5

周星驰 Stephen chow 1

都市 urban 1

政府 government 1

城市规划 urban planning 1

刺激 stimulate, excitement, stimulating 3

 

 

 

Source of keywords:

 

 

Q: Your works cut deeply into life in a direct fashion. Do you consider this intervention to be important? Is it an overriding characteristic of Chinese contemporary art or the art of the new generation?

 

A: We’ve heard a lot of discussions about the social aspect of contemporary art, but sometimes being social doesn’t necessarily mean making a piece of work to express his concerns about the society, or to emphasize the social pressure of the work’s concept, because it hasn’t really advanced social life. Maybe the artist has indeed cut into reality, but I’m looking forward to seeing the influence and dialogue to be more direct.

 

Q: I find your point very interesting, so you have a very positive attitude towards contemporary art.

 

A: I don’t mind artist being personal. Sometimes artists would try to isolate themselves from the society, and most of them have introverted personality, but I think there is room for other type of people or direction. Like Ou Ning and I, we do urban planning- and architecture-related projects, and we are even deeply involved with the residents in front of our camera, I think these are all interesting. So I think contemporary art should be more open and embracing. At the absence of an appropriate term to describe our works, we temporarily put up with ‘contemporary art’. But it might well be something else, [something freer] with a freer title.

 

Q: Let’s get back to the topic of engaging with other people, how do you see your relation when collaborating with someone else?

 

A: Gradually I come to realize that reality or realism is still powerful in China at present, and documenting is another focus and a way to approach the reality. It seems to me that European artists have already gone through the high speed economic development period. Chinese contemporary art was probably influenced by European conceptual art in the very beginning, but I think we are gradually developing our own expression and context, which fit better in this country and its social life. In the early days we saw a lot of tricks played with forms – typical western working method. But I think the changes in every country are different, artists of different countries respond and react differently to their social and artistic reality. I fully understand and appreciate the works of that German artist.

 

Q: How does the current social reality of China affect your art and Chinese contemporary art in general? What does it offer you? Does it obstruct you? How?

 

A: My generation doesn’t seem to like to go abroad, instead we prefer to spend time in our own cities or countries to observe. This is a time of drastic changes, and there are a myriad of information to stimulate your creation, that’s why I’m willing to stay in this city. The city has been accumulating and changing as I grew up, and I’m used to the speed and excitement of it. For me, it’s like a well deeply rooted in the residence. When we were making San Yuan Li and Dazhalan Project, we were more or less getting ourselves into sensitive topics such as demolition and forced eviction. Ideologically we were standing against government. We think these topics are about the development of the society. We have a difficult environment for this kind of artistic expression. In the early days of contemporary art we still find a kind of risking – the confrontation with government ideology, but today is a different story. How to put this……in old terms we said artists have sold their souls to the government. I think these days are witnessing the decrease of venturing spirit of that kind. Today’s venture is no longer the behaviouristic or conceptual ones, it’s rather about a way to probe deep into the core of the problems: the deeper and more difficult. This is a working method and direction chosen by the artists, and it’s the environment we are facing now.

 

Q: You are quite sensitive to the changes of contemporary art, and your experience and attention to them are rather unusual. Do you have other judgments towards contemporary art besides the change-focused one?

 

A: Let’s take my documentary Father for example. My father has been a sculptor for many years, after I have grown up, I started to looking for connection between me and his sculptures. I made a documentary on him, I documented how he made sculptures of Deng Xiaoping, and he traveled a lot of counties and towns and accepted larger and larger orders. Father is now making sculptures of Confucius, and there’s a large market for it currently. Although not a contemporary artist, he has a close tie with reality, and you can learn about the near future direction of the country from sculpture: Deng Xiaoping this year, Confucius the next, and the one after……all these are explicitly visible on the older generation of artists, you see the destiny of China and its development in their art, and how artists of that age compromise with daily life. They were more closely connected with reality than the younger contemporary artists. The real face of our society is better reflected by my father as an artist. I submitted the documentary on my father to Taipei Biennale.

 

Q: Why do you think that there’s insufficient love in Chinese contemporary art?

 

A: First there are social factors, which I just mentioned. We are living in a society without love, or one in which love is not advocated. This value is not proposed by the whole society. The education we had from the early years was only fake respect and fake love, so I don’t think art should take the blame – because the whole society is simply going into a wrong direction, the moral system is collapsing, I’m a little desperate in this regard. It’s not only in the art circle, but all walks of life. So sometimes I feel the reason of art‘s existence is to rub smooth the social cracks. As an artist, I will try my best in this direction, instead of producing more phony things.

 

Q: This is exactly the belief that is in short in this society, with consumerism culture and fashion prevailing. Do you think they have any influence on the value of our society?

 

A: Sure they do, both show biz and fashion industry have casted an influence on the younger generation and the society as a whole. In America and Europe, although show biz and entertainment occupy a certain portion of the whole culture, they also manage to preserve the traditional elements. For instance, New York has the hippest events, but there are also poetry reading sessions or traditional rock concerts every night. But China is simply moving too fast, rock is out-of-fashion now, people are more into electronic music, things get eliminated very fast, old stuff are despised. So I think this is rooted in the nature of Chinese people. We have gone through a lot of political campaigns so we are afraid of falling behind. As a result, we over-do a lot of things. It’s radical, really……and the communication with our time? It seems that artists have lost faith in the society, sometimes they even have no desire in creating art works. At the discovery of art’s helplessness and powerless against the society, they figure that it doesn’t really matter either you make this work or not, and they lack the desire of existence, a kind of boredom.

 

Q: What do you think should be an artist’s conscious to his/her social role? Do you really believe that art can function in the society? To which degree? Is this just a hope?

 

A: I believe as an artist, you can definitely have only limited and weak influence on the society, and it functions only within a small circle unless you really take advantage of all kinds of resources, be adventurous and work like an activist and not just an artist. I see myself mainly as a bridge, even I stop being an artist one day, maybe I can do something more intellectually stimulating? So it’s really about getting this role as a bridge more stable and focused.

 

Q: Last question: would you please offer us your statement as an artist? What are some of the key concepts of your artistic creation?

 

A: How should I put this……like the project I’m doing now, it’s a film called Who’s Utopia?. This is both an interrogative sentence and a simply statement. Utopia should be built by us in collaboration, or shall we say some of us do need a utopia. I think I’m the kind of person who still has this ‘utopia complex‘, I’m not into the dystopia thing. Although I can’t really see the future clearly, but there has always been a force pushing me forward towards Utopia. What’s more, it’s not impossible that, one day, I would ditch this identity as an artist in favor of that of an activist.

government 政府[zheng fu]

我们在做《三元里》跟在做《大栅栏》的时候,我们的作品在某种程度是敏感的,比如跟拆迁问题有关,跟政府相左,我们觉得这种题材是进入了发展方面的问题了。这种创作环境比较难,像早期的当代艺术,我们还能看到一种冒险——和意识形态的对抗,但是在今天——怎么说呢?以前我们说艺术家被招安,我觉得在今天这种冒险会更少,今天的冒险也不是当时的那种仅仅是行为上面的、或者观念上面的一种冒险,而是怎么进入问题的一种内壳, 当你进入得越可能会越。是艺术家自己决定的一种工作方式方向的。我觉得这就是创作的环境

When we were making San Yuan Li and Dazhalan Project, we were more or less getting ourselves into sensitive topics such as demolition and forced eviction. Ideologically we were standing against government. We think these topics are about the development of the society. We have a difficult environment for this kind of artistic expression. In the early days of contemporary art we still find a kind of risking – the confrontation with government ideology, but today is a different story. How to put this……in old terms we said artists have sold their souls to the government. I think these days are witnessing the decrease of venturing spirit of that kind. Today’s venture is no longer the behaviouristic or conceptual ones, it’s rather about a way to probe deep into the core of the problems: the deeper and more difficult. This is a working method and direction chosen by the artists, and it’s the environment we are facing now.

(摘自徐坦对曹蕾的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Cao Lei)

Interviewed: Cao Lei

Time: Evening, January 31, 2007

Location: The blue building, SOHO New Town, Beijing

 

社会 society social 23

关系 relationship involved with 16

珠三角 Pearl River Delta 12

成长 长大 grew up 12

love 11

年青 young 10

合作 collaboration 9

影响 (作用) influence 9

普通人,观众,村民average (people, audience, villager) 7

环境 surrounding 11

自己 self 30

自我 myself 1

乌托邦 utopia 5

艺术圈 art circle 4

交流 communication 6

现实 现状 reality (realism) 12

现实主义 reality realism 2

国家 country 5+

fast 3

 

招安 sold souls 1

独立 independence 6

 

 

个人()   individual personal 12

中国 China Chinese 10

西方 the West 4

情感qinggan)    emotion 10

感情(ganqing) feeling 3

年代 时代 age 14

时尚 hippest fashion 7

流行 popular 5

周星驰 Stephen chow 1

都市 urban 1

政府 government 1

城市规划 urban planning 1

刺激 stimulate, excitement, stimulating 3

 

 

 

Source of keywords:

 

 

Q: Your works cut deeply into life in a direct fashion. Do you consider this intervention to be important? Is it an overriding characteristic of Chinese contemporary art or the art of the new generation?

 

A: We’ve heard a lot of discussions about the social aspect of contemporary art, but sometimes being social doesn’t necessarily mean making a piece of work to express his concerns about the society, or to emphasize the social pressure of the work’s concept, because it hasn’t really advanced social life. Maybe the artist has indeed cut into reality, but I’m looking forward to seeing the influence and dialogue to be more direct.

 

Q: I find your point very interesting, so you have a very positive attitude towards contemporary art.

 

A: I don’t mind artist being personal. Sometimes artists would try to isolate themselves from the society, and most of them have introverted personality, but I think there is room for other type of people or direction. Like Ou Ning and I, we do urban planning- and architecture-related projects, and we are even deeply involved with the residents in front of our camera, I think these are all interesting. So I think contemporary art should be more open and embracing. At the absence of an appropriate term to describe our works, we temporarily put up with ‘contemporary art’. But it might well be something else, [something freer] with a freer title.

 

Q: Let’s get back to the topic of engaging with other people, how do you see your relation when collaborating with someone else?

 

A: Gradually I come to realize that reality or realism is still powerful in China at present, and documenting is another focus and a way to approach the reality. It seems to me that European artists have already gone through the high speed economic development period. Chinese contemporary art was probably influenced by European conceptual art in the very beginning, but I think we are gradually developing our own expression and context, which fit better in this country and its social life. In the early days we saw a lot of tricks played with forms – typical western working method. But I think the changes in every country are different, artists of different countries respond and react differently to their social and artistic reality. I fully understand and appreciate the works of that German artist.

 

Q: How does the current social reality of China affect your art and Chinese contemporary art in general? What does it offer you? Does it obstruct you? How?

 

A: My generation doesn’t seem to like to go abroad, instead we prefer to spend time in our own cities or countries to observe. This is a time of drastic changes, and there are a myriad of information to stimulate your creation, that’s why I’m willing to stay in this city. The city has been accumulating and changing as I grew up, and I’m used to the speed and excitement of it. For me, it’s like a well deeply rooted in the residence. When we were making San Yuan Li and Dazhalan Project, we were more or less getting ourselves into sensitive topics such as demolition and forced eviction. Ideologically we were standing against government. We think these topics are about the development of the society. We have a difficult environment for this kind of artistic expression. In the early days of contemporary art we still find a kind of risking – the confrontation with government ideology, but today is a different story. How to put this……in old terms we said artists have sold their souls to the government. I think these days are witnessing the decrease of venturing spirit of that kind. Today’s venture is no longer the behaviouristic or conceptual ones, it’s rather about a way to probe deep into the core of the problems: the deeper and more difficult. This is a working method and direction chosen by the artists, and it’s the environment we are facing now.

 

Q: You are quite sensitive to the changes of contemporary art, and your experience and attention to them are rather unusual. Do you have other judgments towards contemporary art besides the change-focused one?

 

A: Let’s take my documentary Father for example. My father has been a sculptor for many years, after I have grown up, I started to looking for connection between me and his sculptures. I made a documentary on him, I documented how he made sculptures of Deng Xiaoping, and he traveled a lot of counties and towns and accepted larger and larger orders. Father is now making sculptures of Confucius, and there’s a large market for it currently. Although not a contemporary artist, he has a close tie with reality, and you can learn about the near future direction of the country from sculpture: Deng Xiaoping this year, Confucius the next, and the one after……all these are explicitly visible on the older generation of artists, you see the destiny of China and its development in their art, and how artists of that age compromise with daily life. They were more closely connected with reality than the younger contemporary artists. The real face of our society is better reflected by my father as an artist. I submitted the documentary on my father to Taipei Biennale.

 

Q: Why do you think that there’s insufficient love in Chinese contemporary art?

 

A: First there are social factors, which I just mentioned. We are living in a society without love, or one in which love is not advocated. This value is not proposed by the whole society. The education we had from the early years was only fake respect and fake love, so I don’t think art should take the blame – because the whole society is simply going into a wrong direction, the moral system is collapsing, I’m a little desperate in this regard. It’s not only in the art circle, but all walks of life. So sometimes I feel the reason of art‘s existence is to rub smooth the social cracks. As an artist, I will try my best in this direction, instead of producing more phony things.

 

Q: This is exactly the belief that is in short in this society, with consumerism culture and fashion prevailing. Do you think they have any influence on the value of our society?

 

A: Sure they do, both show biz and fashion industry have casted an influence on the younger generation and the society as a whole. In America and Europe, although show biz and entertainment occupy a certain portion of the whole culture, they also manage to preserve the traditional elements. For instance, New York has the hippest events, but there are also poetry reading sessions or traditional rock concerts every night. But China is simply moving too fast, rock is out-of-fashion now, people are more into electronic music, things get eliminated very fast, old stuff are despised. So I think this is rooted in the nature of Chinese people. We have gone through a lot of political campaigns so we are afraid of falling behind. As a result, we over-do a lot of things. It’s radical, really……and the communication with our time? It seems that artists have lost faith in the society, sometimes they even have no desire in creating art works. At the discovery of art’s helplessness and powerless against the society, they figure that it doesn’t really matter either you make this work or not, and they lack the desire of existence, a kind of boredom.

 

Q: What do you think should be an artist’s conscious to his/her social role? Do you really believe that art can function in the society? To which degree? Is this just a hope?

 

A: I believe as an artist, you can definitely have only limited and weak influence on the society, and it functions only within a small circle unless you really take advantage of all kinds of resources, be adventurous and work like an activist and not just an artist. I see myself mainly as a bridge, even I stop being an artist one day, maybe I can do something more intellectually stimulating? So it’s really about getting this role as a bridge more stable and focused.

 

Q: Last question: would you please offer us your statement as an artist? What are some of the key concepts of your artistic creation?

 

A: How should I put this……like the project I’m doing now, it’s a film called Who’s Utopia?. This is both an interrogative sentence and a simply statement. Utopia should be built by us in collaboration, or shall we say some of us do need a utopia. I think I’m the kind of person who still has this ‘utopia complex‘, I’m not into the dystopia thing. Although I can’t really see the future clearly, but there has always been a force pushing me forward towards Utopia. What’s more, it’s not impossible that, one day, I would ditch this identity as an artist in favor of that of an activist.

goddess 女神[nu shen]

感觉世界博大了,应该去描述很多东西,包括宇宙……我知道的东西我都,我了就能去深入知道一些东西,虽然不是全部……我知道很多东西,特别是一些审美的东西,比如说红山文化女神,我想知道女神到底是什么样子的?西安有很悠久文化历史,在临潼发现遗址后我就把这一系列出来了,看看是否很神秘

The world is too grand. Painting should include many things, including the universe. I want to paint everything that I know about, and after painting them I get to know something deeper about them, although not all. I’m curious to know about various things, especially things aesthetic. For example, the goddess in Hongshan culture – I’d like to know what that goddess looks like. We have is a long cultural history in Xi’an, and after the archeological site was discovered in Lintong, I did this whole series of paintings, to see whether it was really mysterious.

(摘自徐坦对郭丹霞的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Guo Danxia)

Interviewed: Guo Danxia

Time: Afternoon, Jan. 27, 2007

Location: The artist’s residence, Xi’an.

 

 

 

理解 comprehend know 7

(画画 paint drawing 199

知道 know 22

文化 culture 12

文化层次 culture level 4

healing cure 11

understand 8

清楚 clear 8

感觉 feel 15

白血病 leukemia leukemic 6

白鳝 white eel 4

自己 self own 20

别人 other people others 18

感觉 feel 24

 

迷信 Superstition 2

 

中国 China Chinese 7

西方 the West Western 5

身体 health Body physically physical condition 8

Qi (energy) 6

spiritual 3

灵气 reiki 2

气功 Qigong 3

生殖器 genitalia 4

神秘 mysterious 3

科技 science 2

经济效益 1economic profit 1

女神 goddess 2

境界 level spiritual level 2

谋杀 murder 2

智(慧)     intelligence intelligent 4

开发 develop development 4

 

 

 

Q: How did you start painting?

 

A: May 21, 1989 – before that I had often been sick due to bad health. I had heard that even illiterates could write prescriptions, which amazed me, so I wondered if I could paint. That was how I started painting, ever since that day. What I painted was stuff related to healing: how do you cure leukemia? How do you cure toothache? How do you cure moodiness? I painted them out, and those works are still there. When painting leukemia, I felt I painted all the leukemic cells – that’s how it felt. I went to school in the 1950s; we were among the first group of students to wear the red scarf, and what we paint now are really interesting stuff. After that I could paint whatever comes to mind, and I’ve never put down my brush in the past 18 years. Now I paint whatever I want; I follow no rules; and sometimes I would even realize it after I finish the painting. I stopped going to work when I was forty, as I was always sick. I couldn’t help it, and then I opened a painting and calligraphy parlor to relax myself. Originally I was trained in chemical experiments chemical analysis; later I painted on paper and fabric scrolls. In 1991, there was an international imagery expo; they wanted to me participate, but I didn’t go. I later brought a few paintings over; and they were stunned, but I didn’t feel anything. I didn’t even know what I was painting myself; but sometimes you could figure it out, after you’ve finished painting it.

 

Q: Do you think there is any meaning to be discussed in your paintings?

 

A: There are some that I cannot explain, and some I do can explain. I used to think all the time about bodily spasm, about how to cure illness. Eventually I painted fetuses and the way the human body develops… Those paintings are composed with digits. So, since over ten years ago, I started to believe that the human body is made up of digits. And it was only recently that people started to say that chromosomes are made up of digits.

 

Q: Is your art influenced by tradition, or by something else?

 

A: I practiced Qigong before, which is a very good Chinese tradition. It helps develop your intelligence. Practicing Qigong is practicing the brain; but not everybody can succeed. I think I’m talented at this, because I’m totally honest – I’m not interested in ripping people off or making money; I just want to get into shape, and my body is in good shape now. To paint under such circumstances, I feel I could realize a lot. No matter what [people] others say, I feel I could paint the most important thing in my life. If I wanted to paint a brain, eventually I would finish painting a brain. I feel I’m too intelligent – learning by nurture is also a way to develop one’s intelligence. I never see this as superstition. It is a science.

 

Q: What kind of concept do you think contemporary art is?

 

A: I see contemporary art as very progressive, unlike painting from the past. I feel that they are all full of life, even though I don’t know much about traditional pedagogy in the field of art. But Western paintings of the nudebefore I painted, I felt that they were uncivilized. But after I painted myself, I understood that they were beautiful. More precisely, they reveal both the good and the bad.

 

Q: What do you think is the relation between art and society?

 

A: I feel we should study art with a tolerance towards all, whether it is traditional culture or anything else. As long as it exists in this society, it has value. I see this as the promise. I’m different from you guys: you people paint after you understood, and yet I understand only after I painted; that’s why I’m not interested in communicating with others. I paint whatever I want, especially things I don’t know about, which I paint best. I often watch science channels on television – those things that exist already in the West but not in China, I paint them. A guy from Taiwan once said that my paintings are frozen art, belonging to the highest level in art. I think there are very nice art in painting, but its value lies not in art, but something much better and deeper than art. For example, I paint whatever is in Xi’an, and I study whatever I paint; once a painting is done, there are still lots to be studied in the painting. When I painted Empress Wu Zetian’s tomb, the Shao Tomb, I painted a clown sitting on her navel, because “Shao Tomb” used to be “Xiao Tomb” (“Tomb of Laughter”), where a homophone was used to cover up the reality. Was this site chosen by her, or was it simply meant for her burial in the first place? I think there is a lot to study in this.

 

Q: What role do you think an artist should play?

 

A: I think an artist should cover all different aspects in his art. If you only paint the surface, without expressing the spirit, it’s not a good painting. I believe myself to be someone with multiple personalities, not simply a painter. Like I can diagnose myself; I can cure other people‘s illness through painting. I can also strengthen myself physically. I’m sixty-seven now, and in great shape. Many artists remain in good physical condition once they reach a certain spiritual level, and can live very long. They are also practicing the Qi (energy) to dredge their mind; that’s why painters have high spiritual levels.

 

Q: What function do you think artists have in a society?

 

A: Artists can express their own thoughts through painting, which propels the society forward. Stuff like contemporary art in particular, which I go see sometimes – I ask people, “What is Utopia“? They say it’s beautiful things. I feel my paintings represent eastern culture; they not only belong to me personally, but also to everyone else.

 

Q: Then do you care whether your art is understood by others?

 

A: I don’t. Everyone comes from a different cultural level. Some people of lower cultural levels can understand my painting, whereas those from higher cultural levels cannot. A director of an academy in Singapore once said that what I painted was genitalia, but I don’t even know how to paint genitalia. I hope to spread Chinese culture out to everywhere. I am someone with modern education; what I paint is contemporary painting. I’m not playing with feudalistic superstition.

 

A: Please describe the process of your creation.

 

Q: Like my painting a portrait of someone. I can paint someone just by writing his name once. With just a few strokes, I can paint with great resemblance, even people who I have never seen before. After I finish painting, I can even talk about that person. I can feel all these with my brush. These are what I receive from my subject. It’s not out of the blue. The world is too grand. Painting should include many things, including the universe. I want to paint everything that I know about, and after painting them I get to know something deeper about them, although not all. I’m curious to know about various things, especially things aesthetic. For example, the goddess in Hongshan culture – I’d like to know what that goddess looks like. We have is a long cultural history in Xi’an, and after the archeological site was discovered in Lintong, I did this whole series of paintings, to see whether it was really mysterious. Some painters really hate people asking questions, but not me. Whatever you want me to paint, I can do it; the less I know about something, the better I can paint it. For example, the pyramid in Egypt – only after painting it did I know that it was where the pharaohs were buried. I never knew that before painting it.

genitali 生殖器[sheng zhi qi]

新加坡的一个院长,说我的是生殖器,但我都不知道生殖器怎么的;我希望把中国的文化宣传出去,我是一个受过现代教育的人,我的就是当代,我没搞封建迷信

A director of an academy in Singapore once said that what I painted was genitalia, but I don’t even know how to paint genitalia. I hope to spread Chinese culture out to everywhere. I am someone with modern education; what I paint is contemporary painting. I’m not playing with feudalistic superstition.

(摘自徐坦对郭丹霞的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Guo Danxia)

Interviewed: Guo Danxia

Time: Afternoon, Jan. 27, 2007

Location: The artist’s residence, Xi’an.

 

 

 

理解 comprehend know 7

(画画 paint drawing 199

知道 know 22

文化 culture 12

文化层次 culture level 4

healing cure 11

understand 8

清楚 clear 8

感觉 feel 15

白血病 leukemia leukemic 6

白鳝 white eel 4

自己 self own 20

别人 other people others 18

感觉 feel 24

 

迷信 Superstition 2

 

中国 China Chinese 7

西方 the West Western 5

身体 health Body physically physical condition 8

Qi (energy) 6

spiritual 3

灵气 reiki 2

气功 Qigong 3

生殖器 genitalia 4

神秘 mysterious 3

科技 science 2

经济效益 1economic profit 1

女神 goddess 2

境界 level spiritual level 2

谋杀 murder 2

智(慧)     intelligence intelligent 4

开发 develop development 4

 

 

 

Q: How did you start painting?

 

A: May 21, 1989 – before that I had often been sick due to bad health. I had heard that even illiterates could write prescriptions, which amazed me, so I wondered if I could paint. That was how I started painting, ever since that day. What I painted was stuff related to healing: how do you cure leukemia? How do you cure toothache? How do you cure moodiness? I painted them out, and those works are still there. When painting leukemia, I felt I painted all the leukemic cells – that’s how it felt. I went to school in the 1950s; we were among the first group of students to wear the red scarf, and what we paint now are really interesting stuff. After that I could paint whatever comes to mind, and I’ve never put down my brush in the past 18 years. Now I paint whatever I want; I follow no rules; and sometimes I would even realize it after I finish the painting. I stopped going to work when I was forty, as I was always sick. I couldn’t help it, and then I opened a painting and calligraphy parlor to relax myself. Originally I was trained in chemical experiments chemical analysis; later I painted on paper and fabric scrolls. In 1991, there was an international imagery expo; they wanted to me participate, but I didn’t go. I later brought a few paintings over; and they were stunned, but I didn’t feel anything. I didn’t even know what I was painting myself; but sometimes you could figure it out, after you’ve finished painting it.

 

Q: Do you think there is any meaning to be discussed in your paintings?

 

A: There are some that I cannot explain, and some I do can explain. I used to think all the time about bodily spasm, about how to cure illness. Eventually I painted fetuses and the way the human body develops… Those paintings are composed with digits. So, since over ten years ago, I started to believe that the human body is made up of digits. And it was only recently that people started to say that chromosomes are made up of digits.

 

Q: Is your art influenced by tradition, or by something else?

 

A: I practiced Qigong before, which is a very good Chinese tradition. It helps develop your intelligence. Practicing Qigong is practicing the brain; but not everybody can succeed. I think I’m talented at this, because I’m totally honest – I’m not interested in ripping people off or making money; I just want to get into shape, and my body is in good shape now. To paint under such circumstances, I feel I could realize a lot. No matter what [people] others say, I feel I could paint the most important thing in my life. If I wanted to paint a brain, eventually I would finish painting a brain. I feel I’m too intelligent – learning by nurture is also a way to develop one’s intelligence. I never see this as superstition. It is a science.

 

Q: What kind of concept do you think contemporary art is?

 

A: I see contemporary art as very progressive, unlike painting from the past. I feel that they are all full of life, even though I don’t know much about traditional pedagogy in the field of art. But Western paintings of the nudebefore I painted, I felt that they were uncivilized. But after I painted myself, I understood that they were beautiful. More precisely, they reveal both the good and the bad.

 

Q: What do you think is the relation between art and society?

 

A: I feel we should study art with a tolerance towards all, whether it is traditional culture or anything else. As long as it exists in this society, it has value. I see this as the promise. I’m different from you guys: you people paint after you understood, and yet I understand only after I painted; that’s why I’m not interested in communicating with others. I paint whatever I want, especially things I don’t know about, which I paint best. I often watch science channels on television – those things that exist already in the West but not in China, I paint them. A guy from Taiwan once said that my paintings are frozen art, belonging to the highest level in art. I think there are very nice art in painting, but its value lies not in art, but something much better and deeper than art. For example, I paint whatever is in Xi’an, and I study whatever I paint; once a painting is done, there are still lots to be studied in the painting. When I painted Empress Wu Zetian’s tomb, the Shao Tomb, I painted a clown sitting on her navel, because “Shao Tomb” used to be “Xiao Tomb” (“Tomb of Laughter”), where a homophone was used to cover up the reality. Was this site chosen by her, or was it simply meant for her burial in the first place? I think there is a lot to study in this.

 

Q: What role do you think an artist should play?

 

A: I think an artist should cover all different aspects in his art. If you only paint the surface, without expressing the spirit, it’s not a good painting. I believe myself to be someone with multiple personalities, not simply a painter. Like I can diagnose myself; I can cure other people‘s illness through painting. I can also strengthen myself physically. I’m sixty-seven now, and in great shape. Many artists remain in good physical condition once they reach a certain spiritual level, and can live very long. They are also practicing the Qi (energy) to dredge their mind; that’s why painters have high spiritual levels.

 

Q: What function do you think artists have in a society?

 

A: Artists can express their own thoughts through painting, which propels the society forward. Stuff like contemporary art in particular, which I go see sometimes – I ask people, “What is Utopia“? They say it’s beautiful things. I feel my paintings represent eastern culture; they not only belong to me personally, but also to everyone else.

 

Q: Then do you care whether your art is understood by others?

 

A: I don’t. Everyone comes from a different cultural level. Some people of lower cultural levels can understand my painting, whereas those from higher cultural levels cannot. A director of an academy in Singapore once said that what I painted was genitalia, but I don’t even know how to paint genitalia. I hope to spread Chinese culture out to everywhere. I am someone with modern education; what I paint is contemporary painting. I’m not playing with feudalistic superstition.

 

A: Please describe the process of your creation.

 

Q: Like my painting a portrait of someone. I can paint someone just by writing his name once. With just a few strokes, I can paint with great resemblance, even people who I have never seen before. After I finish painting, I can even talk about that person. I can feel all these with my brush. These are what I receive from my subject. It’s not out of the blue. The world is too grand. Painting should include many things, including the universe. I want to paint everything that I know about, and after painting them I get to know something deeper about them, although not all. I’m curious to know about various things, especially things aesthetic. For example, the goddess in Hongshan culture – I’d like to know what that goddess looks like. We have is a long cultural history in Xi’an, and after the archeological site was discovered in Lintong, I did this whole series of paintings, to see whether it was really mysterious. Some painters really hate people asking questions, but not me. Whatever you want me to paint, I can do it; the less I know about something, the better I can paint it. For example, the pyramid in Egypt – only after painting it did I know that it was where the pharaohs were buried. I never knew that before painting it.

game 游戏[you xi]

(彭)以前西方的更加关注的,认为的东西是跟政治对抗的东西,那就是跟整个中国意识形态关系,因为那个时候还不够开放,上海还没有开始做双年展……,所有的西方观众都会从政治角度去看你的作品中国观众两部分,我觉得这两个部分是特别有意思的,这两部分,一部分是懂艺术的人,或者就是跟艺术,跟文化有关的,一部分是跟文化没有关系的人,跟文化有关的这部分人恰恰不能接受这样的作品,而且提出很多抗议或者指责,而跟艺术文化没关系的人,包括警察……我的展览有一次被封过,我跟很多警察片警居委会这些普通人过天,他们都来展览,都觉得太有意思了,

而现在政府也在搞双年展,当代艺术变成了一张,变成大家都可以利用的和值得利用的东西了,所以像一个口号,一个面孔,出现在国际上面孔,这个时候一场与官方游戏开始了

A:(彭)在九几年2000以前,有的时候发生一件事情,你可以静下心来观察周围的事情,细心地去体会每个人变化,而现在,尤其是这些年,整个的艺术气氛都是特别浮躁的,我都心情体会外界的一些变化,而且现在情况比较复杂,……就像我们生活798这个院子里,这完全就是一个旅游区,你很难定位,但我们确实还在这儿工作,现在政府也在做当代艺术了,有很多投机份子做这个事情画廊疯狂加入,每这个院子都有可能出现十几家画廊,然后整个中国当代艺术价格国际市场膨胀,我觉得很多艺术家他们都找不到自己了,所以不像那个时候的情况那么单纯了,地下就地下,就搞艺术,现在真是在和所有的人合作,你在越来越多地跟他们玩这个游戏游戏越来越复杂了,进入第二关!

(Peng) At that time the West was more interested in the political confrontational aspect, it has something to do with the whole Chinese ideology. The country was not open enough back then, and biennale still didn’t emerge in Shanghai……all the western audiences would interpret your work from the political perspective. There were two kinds of Chinese audience, and this is particularly interesting, the first kind is artistically-informed people, or people somewhat related to art and culture; and the other kind is people who has no relationship whatsoever with culture. As it turned out, the culture-savvy part happened to find our works incomprehensible, they even made a lot of protests or accusation against them. On the other hand, those who have no relationship with art or culture, including policemen……one of my exhibitions was banned, and I chatted with many ordinary people like policemen and persons in Residents’ Committee, you know, ordinary people, they all went to see the exhibition and found it super interesting.

And now governments are organizing biennales, contemporary art has become a card in their hands, something that everyone can and should take advantage of. So it’s like a slogan, a presentation used to impress the international community, and here’s when the game with the official starts.

A: (Peng) In the ’90s, before 2000, when something happens, you can calm down to observe your surroundings, to perceive the changes of everybody in detail. But now, especially in recent years, the whole atmosphere in the art scene is volatile. It has become difficult for me to try to understand the changes outside, and the situation is complicated now……take our studio in 798 for example, this place is so touristy now, it’s hard to position yourself. But we do work here as of today. Now the government is into contemporary art too, a lot of opportunitists are into this, and there’s the gallery frenzy, a dozen of new galleries would turn up here every day. You also witness the price of Chinese contemporary art skyrocketing on the international market, I have the feeling that many artists have lost themselves, they have become less pure; in the old days, underground is underground, the artists make art, and that’s it. Nowadays everyone collaborates with everyone, and you participate in their game more frequently, the game is getting more and more complex, Stage Two!

(摘自徐坦对孙晋、彭尧的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Sun Jin, Peng Yao)

Interviewed: Wang Guanzheng

Time: Noon, Feb. 3, 2007

Location: Grass Green 2607, SOHO Modern City, Beijing

整体 totality total picture overall 12

集体(主义) collectives collectivity 11

一致 homogeneity homogenous 7

时间 time period period of time 15

社会 society social societal 26

个人 individual individualistic 30

经验 experience 13

公共 public 11

大众 public (populace)   15

倾向() tendency inclination 7

语言 language 9

怀疑 doubt suspicion 5

质疑 suspicion question questioning 10

方法 method way  17

方式 manner way 43

(有)问题 problem questionable issue 54

() change become modification 8

状态 status 8

秩序 order 8

判断 judgment judges 20

创造() creative creativity 4

知识(分子) knowledge intellectuals 11

明确() clarify clarity clear 20

针对 focus 9

角度 angles 5

态度 attitude stance 9

身份 identity 22

后身份 post-identity 9

可能性 possibilities 14

话语 discourse 5

权力 power 5

实验 experiment 6

国家 nation 6

概念 concept

 

 

独立 independent 1

意识形态 ideology ideologism 11

安全 safe unsafe safety 4

审批制度 censorship system 1

 

 

 

 

市场 market 8

传统 traditional 5

中国 China 31

money wealthy 2

机会 opportunity 8

诱惑 temptation 1

post 33

关系 relationship 39

生存谋生 survive living 4

商业的 commercial 2

 

 

 

 

Q: Could you please first talk about your view on the current state of contemporary art in China?

 

A: On a macro level, I think we are now in the middle of a process of development. And this is a process of undergoing a transition from seeing the total picture to getting to know individual artists and individual arts, a stage from which I feel we are still very far away. There are pros and cons when a country‘s contemporary art scene appears as a group. The good part is that it attracts more audience and more attention, and the negative part is that it can only appear as a totality. And that, to me, is a problem, which also points to the difference between traditional art and contemporary art. Think about it – over a decade ago, the image that Europe had about Chinese art was an overall impression. If we were to continue our insistence on this totality, it could end up replacing materials or images of one kind with those of another kind– for example, dragon, phoenix, bamboo, porcelain, silk were used in a certain period, which were, eventually, replaced by some other materials. This is the risk you have to take when you present yourself as a totality. I myself am frightened by collectives, because I used to serve in the military, and I lived together with over 60 persons for many years. I’m left with two aftereffects from that experience. The first one is my hatred for homogeneity. I think I’m naturally immune to all things homogenous, either internally or externally. Basically I think a positive view on homogeneity is itself questionable. The second one is my suspicion for collectives.

 

Q: What then should an artist focus on, in your opinion?

 

A: That would be different to each artist. For myself, what I’m interested in is, simply speaking, possibilities. Like I just said, my suspicion for the existing order, and if I question order, which includes any form of order: governmental order, societal order, knowledge order and rules, if you [think this way] take this attitude, then what we often discuss, insofar as   where art is now, is no longer important. What’s important is [how] the way you display your method of questioning such orders.

 

For instance, through the clarity of commercialization and ideology (we) can understand the society in the simplest way. These have become our internalized way of recognizing the world, i.e., the only Weltanschauung. For me, I call this “New Ideologism,” which is a perfect collusion between commercial standards and political standards. It has a monopoly on everything. In that case, I think the way that contemporary art judges the uncertainties, can hardly survive in such a language context. And what is most fatal, I believe, is that when an ethnic group wants maximum progress… The maximum lies in your demands for possibilities. And possibility can exist only in uncertain domains. When everything in this world is within your grasp, when it offers you no possibilities, do you think you still have creativity?

 

Q: In these exhibitions, do you care about the communication between your work and the audience?

 

A: As a matter of fact… this involves a lot of questions. The first one is what we discussed earlier: whether the public exists or not. We always talk about art and the public. But first of all, does the public exist? Take our talking for example, are you the public or am I the public? If you are and I’m not, then why? On the other hand, if I am and you’re not, then what is that based upon? If neither of us can find a clear basis, then we both are the public. Then it does not exist a kind of…The artist and the public are always form a special relationship. This is the first question, which in itself is very conceptual.

 

The second question is, if there really exists a relationship between the artist and the public, then in fact the public is not communicating directly with the artist. The public and the artist…If we are to discuss relationship, then we need to talk about the system that underlies the relationship. The first system is the education system. Yet our educational system does not support any education on contemporary art… And secondly, in China, strictly speaking, we do not have any art museums – all our museums are organizations that rent spaces in order to survive. And such spaces do not bear any responsibility to educate the public. Consequently, our media always interpret the art experiences as a kind of public voice. Now think about it, the principal relationship between the public and the artist is formed under such circumstances. As a matter of fact, the relationship is produced by these three different systems. If the systems cannot be established, then you can imagine what the relationship will be look like. The third question is that I don’t think there exist a stable relationship between artists and the public.

 

Q: Do you have any views on your living conditions?

 

A: Take our views on cities for example. Artists, intellectuals, and even architects, all talk about cities, but what makes it absurd is not the criticism on cities, but the way of criticizing cities that has become completely homogenous. Sometimes criticism on this city becomes very homogenous, without any characteristics and distinctions. What’s more interesting is, the language and method of criticism have become more homogenous. I’ve attended many symposia on cities, which are essentially “criticizing galas”. And suddenly I noticed two things here: first, it’s very safe to criticize the city, from whatever angles. You can criticize it fiercely or call it bullshit. Because it’s very safe, because it does not involve any people, nor anything concrete things, and at the same time it declares your critical stance. This, to me, is opportunistic way. So, in such contexts, I always refuse to criticize in this manner, because it turns into a collectivity, a way of proving your stance – if you don’t criticize, you’re not… So, now I think another question arises. To criticize cities, but why? The English word “Why?” What is your stance? I hope to see you speak in your own manner, instead of in a public manner, even though what you criticize is a public space. With such an attitude, I think you can have your own judgment on this city. As a matter of fact, to me, cities are man-made landscapes, a product of our Utopian spirit. Idealism and Fascism are on this line, this steel wire; in fact, our entire city is built on this steel fire, its Utopian spirit and Fascist inclination just have a little distance. On this issue, what exactly is your attitude? Whether you’re an artist, a writer, you would use your own language and your own way to present your attitude. And it’s not just a declaration of attitude, because I’ve been hearing a lot – about this “attitude decides everything” thing, which is actually full of problems itself. Because “attitude decides everything” means it all depends on whether you raise your hand or not on every issue. That means going back to a public… In fact, when I worked on “Production” in 1996, I did an investigation on this issue. Why did I go to a lot of sites and public spaces? Why did they sit there all day and listen to the others talking about themselves? They are in fact sharing a daily discourse. In other words, certain individuals have become unimportant in such voices, or that they think it unsafe, so that through this collective site and collective discourse, certain individualistic things are transformed into a public voice with some [attitude] tendency. Thus, everyone shares this safety of public discourse. It’s the same with different ways of living. I think, first of all, living is not a kind of conceptual living; you don’t have to be lured by some hidden temptation, or challenged by some hidden theory. You put your life on a certain hint, and this hint reveals your cultural attitude of some sort. I think this is quite obvious in Beijing, and this is realized concretely in dressing, cigarettes you smoke, eyeglasses you wear – they are all injected with some kind of cultural identity. And I think cultural identity is also lethal: sometimes your attitude is determined by your cultural identity; when you become satisfied with your representing certain cultural identity, you actually stop thinking any further… This is how I feel I am living.

 

Q: Does the generalization of the Chinese art scene by those outside China have something to do with the situation in China now? And, apart from the external forces, does the strong similarity among artists actually have its internal reasons?

 

A: Well, actually I think, to me at least, this question… Like just now you wanted me to talk about my judgment on this thing at the present moment and what the basis of my judgment is. For example, sometimes we say a day is a long period of time, but that depends on specific events, such as brushing one’s teeth once, having a meal, which might take an hour. That is the relationship between time and events. But when something cultural is judged, or judged precisely, I think the time involved here is very long. Actually it’s like our show in 1997… all the way up to now. As you just said, this overall judgment on contemporary art in China, it’s still going on strong. I feel that this process takes more than ten years to finish; it might continue, because of the relationship between China and the world, such development…  So actually culture development is very very slow, especially in this country, where you see sometimes on the streets very fashionable cars and very fashionable cellphones, but many of our cultural institutions and regulations in fact date back to more than 20 years ago, without any modification in between. I’ll give you a simple example – films. Our censorship system on film has stayed virtually the same, and perhaps even more… Therefore, there is a large amount of things this society.. in fact, what have not changed do not show up, so what we do see are those that have changed. Then, seen from this angle, this society has in fact let certain things return to a basis where there are no such huge differences, which takes a very long time (to change). On the other hand, I think contemporary Chinese art is facing this same problem. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed, when we were in the Netherlands, after the exhibition, I remember clearly, we felt shows of such large scale wouldn’t be happening ever again. Then, ten years later, to our great surprise, there are shows even more shocking than that one. There might be two factors at work here: the first one is that more countries, or more organizations, or more wealthy people have become interested in China, maybe then, partially… for instance, a certain genre of art, a certain foundation, started to get interested in the overall contemporary Chinese art. Now, due to the myth of China, more people and organizations have focused on China from various different angles. This might be another kind of change. Second, as more people get involved in this field, more artists would… they would make a relationship with it. This is a process that we must undergo; and I have noticed at the same time, that many artists have already started their work, who I think outnumber those of ten years ago.

(过)瘾[(guo) yin] content

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1.比如说我明明不想选择像现在这种生活,但我可能就有现在这种生活,本来是排斥的,被动地接受了以后,就有,很,很矛盾

Also, like I haven’t chosen to live the life I’m having now, but I ended up like this anyway, so I was forced to accept something I rejected, after a while, I got addicted to it. This is just weird and contradictory.

(摘自徐坦对胡晓媛的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Hu Xiaoyuan)

采访对象:胡小玉

采访时间:200721日下午

采访地点:于北京阜通西大街都市心海岸雅园

woman female 41

女性 female 32

女性主义 feminism 4

man 24

男性 male 18

男性艺术家 male artists 8

社会 society 38

生活(活着) life living lifestyle 33

个人 personal individual 21

感觉 (觉得) feeling 21

兴趣 interest 10

不一样(不同) different difference 9

责任 responsibility 9

关系 relationship 7

生命 life 5

感情(ganqing) emotion 3

情感(qinggan) emotion emotional 4

方式 way approaches 19

自己 self own personal 13

现实 reality 3

介入 intervention involvement 7

 

时政 political 1

自由 freedom 1

 

无聊 bored 3

空虚 empty (spiritually) 2

addicted 2

打交道 deal with 3

有意思 interesting 8

没意思 out the meaning 5

刺激 stimulation stimulated 2

 

 

 

Q:你觉得艺术与生活之间的关系是怎样的?

A:艺术与生活没有那么多矛盾,也不用把它想得那么有逻辑、有道理,我感觉很多事情是很顺其自然的,都可以有条理地搭在一起。我觉得社会可能是在选择一些靠边的、异于大众准则的东西,我最开始排斥这个社会,按理说我也是被排斥的,但是特别奇怪,也许就因为我在做艺术社会最终把我从特别边缘的地方拉回来找回来了,但如果我是从事一种对社会介入非常高的职业,可能我很早就已经被淘汰掉了。当你从社会获利之后,虽然不想,但必然要去承担一定的责任,等于说我开始妥协,开始靠近社会,它可能也给予我更多,但我说不准之后的方向。原来我是排斥社会,现在也还有些许排斥,但是现在社会并不排斥我,这种关系微妙,但是我不知道,如果有一天当我变得非常接纳这个社会,它会不会反过来排斥我?说不清楚,反正都是随机的。我特别惧怕跟这个社会有太多的接触,我从来不用助手,如果我交给助手去做,我活着就更没意思了,我得自己去做,才能觉得起码那段时间我过得是有意义的。我不会、害怕跟人打交道,前段时间我抑郁症。如果按照心意选择,我觉得我适合去尼姑庵,但我不能那样,而且——比如说我明明不想选择像现在这种生活,但我可能就有现在这种生活,本来是排斥的,被动地接受了以后,就有,很,很矛盾。但是船到桥头自然直,现在我开始变得让自己麻木无所谓一点,靠别的东西推我,也不主动去争取,我就在家等现成的,来了之后,只要我喜欢,就努力去做。做艺术最开始对我来说实际上是一个存在方式、理由,觉得比别的有意思。现在带来一些认同之后,就刺激你——因为在做很多事情的过程中慢慢会失去兴趣刺激你就会把这个兴趣的时间延长,就好像一个抛物线,有这些东西介入之后,它可能拉得更长。

Q:市场对你的艺术创作有什么影响吗?

A:没兴趣。只是比如说有人有兴趣要来收藏,我会考虑我的东西应不应该给他?别的我不会考虑,我没有有条理地去研究、了解,也不关心它,反正眼前的生活状态我觉得还行就行了。

Q:你作品的针对性有哪些?

A:我觉得尤其是跟我个人情感感受有特别直观的关系。很多作品有很大的共性,毕竟是我一个人去做的,但每一个作品最初的情感来源是很复杂的而不是特别单纯的一条线,最初都是生活中的某一个点触动到了我,然后我把它延伸开了,所以不是特别容易说清楚,我能说的肯定都是跟我个人生活相关的。我现在有的时候也挺疑惑,前段时间一个的朋友就质问我,他觉得好多“女艺术家——当然我从不这么称呼自己——好像从头到尾关注的就都是那点破事儿情感渊源。当时就在争。现在就我自己来看,我所有发源的点还是从我自身来的,如果碰巧你非要拿这个来指责我,唯一的原因就是因为我的确是个女性,现在我能关注到、能涉及到的、我兴趣的也就是这些东西,现在你能在我全部作品里面看到的比较清楚的脉络就都是从我个人来的。我原来没想过这些问题;我不知道别人怎么回事,但我看我自己,我知道自己是怎么回事。很多男性艺术家都跟我说根本看不懂我的作品。我没有特别详细地去研究过中国女性主义的历史,但我觉得女性从一定的时间段来看,很多东西有很大的变化、发展。比如说我妈的所有意识就是我和我弟,我姥姥的意识就肯定更是孩子老公;但我现在的感觉就是我不想要孩子,我自己都不知道生命是怎么回事,我怎么去承受?我现在老在想生命到底有什么意思?这可能是我做作品最初、最原始的一个动力,因为我得找意思,我就自己不停地每天在那着。这是个男性社会艺术家艺术家,往往眼光非常客观正常;但艺术家艺术家,就老说看不懂,其实特别容易理解女性是很被动地去选择这样一种表述方式,因为她所能涉及到的生活范畴非常狭窄,这种评判本身是没有平等标准的;对很多社会时政市场之类的问题,男性占有率和涉入的深度都比女性要高得多,他当然有一个非常自信地表述自己立场能力女性就肯定不自信不敢去说这些问题,能说的只有她自己、她自己感情,所以很多女性做的东西可能更个人私密性男性就不太能理解了。中国好多我喜欢女性艺术家是非常传统的,延续了很“中国人”的一些本质特征。问题不在于技术,在于传达什么,是否有一个完整的体系,是否对我有触动——这种感觉很多时候只存在女性之间,很难用文字或语言来清楚地描述,但是我能感觉出来,它太过于个人感受化,过于枝节、末端、细微。这个社会也在改变,现在有很多男性艺术家,或除去男性艺术家以外的一些男性,开始关注女性的一些方式,开始考虑自己不能理解的一些女性方式;我觉得50年以后肯定有更大的改变,可能人口的比例也变得更有利女性女性的关注和介入可能会更多,这个社会的比例或者占有的权利就会相对调整

Q:你觉得艺术家的作用是什么?

A:我没有什么责任,不知道起作用是什么感觉,但肯定很多人希望自己能起到作用,这是一种野心,但具体应该起到什么作用?说不清楚。只是,艺术家对于一些东西的表达方式或者说是存在方式不同,但包括艺术家跟艺术家之间也不同。我认为好的、触动了我的艺术家,他的作品一般都是来自于自己生活印记,从这一点来讲,我觉得所有的人都没有区别,只不过个人生活痕迹不一样,呈现出来的结果一样

国外(老外)[guo wai (lao wai)] foreign, abroad

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1.        对制度的看法,对于制度我们是没办法的,因为很多事情事先就是这样的,没有像国外那么完整的一个艺术机制

There is nothing we can do about the system, because a lot of things are pre-existent; we don’t have a well-built mechanism of art as foreign countries.

(摘自徐坦对刘韡的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Liu Wei)

2.特别是中国的房地产这种消费观念跟国外的消费观念完全是不一样的。判断中国的房地产消费不能用国外的标准和习惯。

First of all, Chinese consuming conception is totally different from that in the West. You can not judge Chinese real estate consumption with western standards.

(摘自徐坦对艾伟的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Ai Wei)

3. 我认为张江高科技园区也是借了国外的一些特点,来这样发展起来,现在发展市场也很不错。

I think Zhangjiang Hi-tech park learned from the foreign experience, during its development. Now the development has a quite good market.

(摘自徐坦对陈斌的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Chen Bin)

采访对象:刘韡

采访时间:2007114日下午

采访地点:于北京亿多瑞站咖啡馆

 

生活 life live 15

低级趣味 vulgar taste vulgar 5

自己 self own 22

态度 attitude 6

社会 society social 7

别人 others other people other 5

接受 accept take 6

大众 public 14

大众审美 popular aesthetics 3

审美 aesthetics 7

时尚 fashion 15

消耗 drain (exhaust)               5

关系,联系, 关联 relationship relation related connections 6

不同,不一样 different 10

 

制度 system 1

 

take 7

circle 6

sell 5

发展 development develops 6

无聊 boring bored 5

商业 commercialization business commercial 4

国外 foreign countries 4

中国 China 3

形象 images 5

 

 

Q:请先大概谈谈你对中国当代艺术现状的看法。

A:我认为有一个发展趋势,也存在很多问题,比如商业有点太厉害了,导致有很多东西,根本不会去考虑做什么怎样做,因为经常受到市场影响,关于商业方面的一些东西,可能会造成作品质量上出现很多问题,但也是的,时间长了大家会很冷静的想这件事情,想怎么。我没什么太大的看法,没怎么想这个问题,比如对制度的看法,对于制度我们是没办法的,因为很多事情事先就是这样的,没有像国外那么完整的一个艺术机制中国现在的机制肯定会对艺术的发展产生影响,没有基金会等的一些机构艺术家还是要一些商业方面的东西,国外的一些艺术家可以不依靠作品,可以先申请到基金来进行创作,而中国艺术家必须要靠自己作品填补创作上的需要,就是自己作品掉了来支付下一个作品的费用,存在这样的一个问题。

Q:你的作品想以一个怎么样的形象呈现给别人

A:每年都不一样,现在可能会稍微集中一点,不像近几年作品会有很多种,不同形象的,不同面貌的,可能做录像……等,但用的很多种材质很多种,想法都是不一样的,而现在想稍微统一一点,一年可能一个怎么样的东西?比如装置类的,就是你关心的问题可能会统一一些,会考虑有些作品可以不做,以前是有想法就去做,现在是有想法出来的时候不一定去做,因为做了会对你整个面貌影响,也会考虑到策略方面的问题。比如一件作品做完以后,放在那里,一年后这个作品生效了,但有时候做作品,开始的时候感觉不错,做到一年以后发现这个作品失效了,把所有作品,不论是,先在这里,过一两年后,看这个东西是否还是生效的?还是存在的就因为它和你之前发展的都是有联系的。

A:视觉冲击力肯定是要有的,但不是故意去做外部表现力很强的那种,希望做最基本的、大家都忽视感觉,平时都见到的,通过另一种东西给你冲击力体积或其它的一些东西。

Q:你认为你的艺术创作和社会现实是一个怎么样的关系?

A:我也不知道是一种什么关系,只是在那里一个兴奋点,我总是看到了或者感受到令我兴奋的东西才会有想法,不可能凭空想个东西出来,可能有的人先想一个东西,然后来做,而我做作品来源于——就是我看到某个东西然后我去思考。不会是很理性的去做的这样一个过程

Q:那你的艺术创作同公众的交流会不会有障碍?

A:肯定会有,不过还好,也能知道是什么原因,假如你和别人谈一件事情,由于价值观完全是不同的,完全没办法交流,你也能知道他是在什么,和你完全不一样,对于对方来说也一样,他们也知道你和他的想法不一样有些时候作为大众来讲,他们看了后感觉,能接受,因为当代艺术有最直观的东西在里面,艺术无论如何发展,再怎么观念,总还是有视觉直观在里面,比如漂亮的,这个东西还是不变的,关于和大众沟通,电视大众喜欢看的东西,在我看来电视节目没什么好看的,都在扯淡,很糟糕。当然我也能,但我觉得可能比较低级趣味,可能有一种倾向,越低级趣味的东西吸引人。

Q:这是一种大众文化和精英文化的区别?

A:没有什么精英的东西,我不喜欢这种自以为是的感觉。

Q:北京这个城市对你创作有什么影响?

A:可能气候、或别的都有点影响北京不是一个非常舒服城市,北京就是一个字,实在有点糟糕气候——风沙之类的;一般情况下白天不用出门,到晚上一闭眼就不知道到哪去了,不像南方的一些城市,还可以很舒服的在街上走走北京完全没有这种可能性,只能是白天在家里,晚上到娱乐场所酒吧茶馆等地方,想享受一个自然的东西基本上没有,但这种东西我还比较喜欢,可能和创作审美有一点关联,因为我已经接受了这种景象,已经完全接受了,也不觉得很,有时候还觉得挺漂亮的,北京节奏相对而言也可能点,压力上可能会比其它城市大一点,北京是一个比较好玩的地方,什么人都有,什么样都能在这生存,无论是好想法的或是烂想法的,做各种东西都可以,可以串在一起,可能有这个传统或者习惯

Q:很多艺术家都说北京的展览太多太泛了。

A:是,但我一般不看展览,除非是很熟的人的展览,其他展览都不看

Q:你对美术馆艺术机构有什么看法?

A:基本上没什么联系,那属于公关活动,不是我们做的事情。

Q:那你觉得艺术不应该介入社会、介入生活?

A:不是,有一类艺术家是这样做的,也很好,只是我的想法不同而已。

Q:那你认为艺术家在社会里是一个怎么样的角色?

A:没想过,不知道是什么样一个角色,说不上来,和其他人没什么区别,一样的,自己自己工作想法不同,做的工作也不一样,有时感觉是在消耗自己,每个人都一样,近看你做的东西和别人不一样,放远看没什么区别自己在做些事情,是为了维持能量,然后不断消耗,你不可能朝气蓬勃生活一天大部分时间都是无意义无聊的。

Q:有很多艺术家也觉得消极。

A:不是消极,无聊消极,可能是一种态度社会生活上的很多事情都是这种状态,和现状,可能带有自己判断,对社会、对生活判断,但并不是什么都没有、很消极的那种,不是活不下去了的那种。比如,大众审美,就跟电视电影一样,太无聊了,没办法说,但是大家喜欢,它才能存在,就是一种很低级趣味的东西,但大家都喜欢低级趣味,不论怎么样你都无法逃脱这种低级趣味的东西。

Q:你认为时尚和艺术是怎样的关系?

A:时尚大众生活,有引导性,主要是引导性,引导你的生活——什么样的东西是好的?应该是标杆一样的东西,大众都会往这个方向发展,会引导大家,最终要有一个好的东西引导大众审美艺术没有这种性质,它不需要对所有的人起作用,它是单独作用,或对少部分人起作用,它的基础不是大众

国际(化)[guo ji (hua)] international

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1.在这边,你来公司上班,无论是大公司国际公司,还是小公司。

Here you come to work, no matter in a big international company or a small one.

(摘自徐坦对秦晋的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Qin Jin)

2.我们基本采用国际化操作模式,包括现在正做的一个项目,也是与动漫相关的产品,

Basically we operate in an international mode, like one program going on now, also an animation-related program

(摘自徐坦对陈斌的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Chen Bin)

采访对象:秦晋张江某IT公司职员)

采访时间:2006816

生活气息 (sense of)living life 6

公司 company 7

do make 10

商业 business 3

far remote 6

new 3

car 3

创业 entrepreneurship 3

按摩 massage 1

做脸 facial 1

打扮 dress 2

国际 international 2

外来人 non-natives 2

辛苦 hardworking 2

别墅 villa 2

发展 develop 2

circl 2

活动 activity 1

house apartment 2

逛街 shopping 1

经济实力 economical strength 2

媒体 media 2

市场 market 2

销售 sell 1

环境 surrounding 2

 

张江是个工作的地方,它是开发区,Zhangjiang is a place for working. It is a development zone after all.

冠以开发区的名头,让人感觉是创业的地方,The title itself feels like a place of entrepreneurship,

辛苦的地方,不是生活的地方,a place of hardworking instead of living.

没有生活气息商业和各方面都不方便,There is no sense of living here.Inconvenient commercially and in all other ways.

地铁晚了回不来,除非自己有,You have to be back early to take the subway, unless you have your car.

即使自己有也要开很,Even with a car you have to drive a long distance.

张江这边有很多别墅,In Zhangjiang there are many villas.

除非以后年纪大了,达到一定的程度,有了相当的经济实力,可以来住这里的别墅

But we could not afford them unless we become quite well off in future.

现在看来不大可能住这边。Now it seems totally impossible to live here.

上班确实要,It’s indeed a long way to go to work.

一开始认为很,后来和上海的朋友聊天,But later I talked to my native friends

发现他们从小就是这么的,and found them commute like this since childhood.

比如,他们有可能家住张江,而学校却在复旦大学那边,For example, they could live in Zhangjiang, but go to school near Fudan University,

因为都要读好学校,for they prefer good schools.

每天要在路上2-3个小时,从很小开始,Since they were little they have been spent 2 to 3 hours in commuting per day.

所以我现在觉得不算太,So now I think it’s not that far away.

就近工作当然好,Of couse it would be perfect to work nearby,

但是没有那么两全其美的事,but that is too good to be true.

 

这是一个让人比较能够集中思想的地方,But this is a place for people to easily concentrate.

在这里,人觉得比较塌实,People are down to earth here.

这里不象徐家汇南京西路物质诱惑特别多 Different from Xujiahui or Nanjing West Road,   whick is full of material distractions

每天要逛街按摩做脸,很多活动,where you do shopping, massage or facial every day.Plenty of things to do.

在这边,你来公司上班,无论是大公司国际公司,还是小公司,Here you come to work, no matter in a big international company or a small one,

这份事的时候,你可以专注地去,you can concentrate on your job.

这边的人的气质,这边有很多外来的人,The character of people here, among whom many are non-natives,

整个这里的气氛,小区的气氛,工业园的环境,让人觉得清,and the overall phenomenon of the zone are refreshing,

不会让人觉得太浮华,是工作的好地方。Not showy. A great place for work.

 

女孩子都有两种理想生活,Each girl has two ideal life styles.

一是她羡慕的;另一是她想得到的,One is what she is envious of, the other is what she wants.

当然这两种都不是她现在所拥有的,Of course neither is what she is having.

作为羡慕的方式,女孩子大都喜欢呆在大城市,As for the admiring, girls perfer big cities.

时间,穿的打扮得美,不太劳累的事情,Have spare time, dress themselves gorgeously, and do easy job.

这是一种生活方式,基本上可以随心所欲,It’s a life they can do basically whatever they want,

又可以照顾家庭,又能够自己的事情。can take care of their family and have their own career as well.

这就是她们比较羡慕的方式。This is the life girls envious of.

如果走运的话,能这样生活最好。It would be perfect if they are lucky enough to live such a life.

另外的方式,就是比较接近自己经过努力就能到的,The other is a life they can possibly access through effort.

首先有个,再有,a life with a home, their own apartment and car,

有稳定的公司工作, a stable position in company,

还有很好的一朋友家庭和睦。plus a group of friends and happy family life.

 

如果媒体市场销售工作,If you work with media, marketing or sales,

就需要在商业工作,you need to work in a business field,

能够接受很多和工作相关的外界刺激,accessable to lots of outside incentives related with your work,

比如广告,各种各样广告形式,such as advertisements in various forms.

还有各种业态总是最先出现在商业。And new business trends always initiate in the business zone.

但是如果你IT制造业或是其他,But if you do IT, manufacture or others.

在张江则是最好的,这边的配备也是很好的。Zhangjiang would be an ideal place, with all the neat facilities.

 

第一, ,代表着不方便,1. remote, which means inconvenience,

2,很积极, 2. highly active,

3,活力,在这个地方总能看到公司,3. energetic. We can always see new companies,

的人从全国各地,世界各地来此创业,and entrepreneurs are coming from all over the country or even the world,

4, 发展 。4. developing.

股(股民)[gu (gu min)] stock, share

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1.我也跟一些人聊过,他们觉得现在这种现象可怕的,现在作品价格很高的,高出市场承受能力,这就有点像股市

I’ve talked to some people about this. They feel that the present phenomenon is horrible. The price for art is very high, higher than what the market can take. It’s like a stock market.

(摘自徐坦对卢昊的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Lu Hao)

采访对象:艾东明

采访时间:2007131日下午

采访地点:于北京草场地艾家

do” engage in 25

可能 maybe possibility impossible perhaps may 21

社会 society social 19

问题 problem question 17

兴趣 fascinated interested uninterested interest 12

个人 individual 12

方式 ways approaches 10

市场 market 9

价值 value 7

 

政治的 political  1

国家 country  state  4

自由 freedom  free 7

个人表达 individual expression

地下 underground

民主 democratic  2

 

circle 3

money 5

时代 (information/Internet) age 5

play 3

资金 capital 1

poor poverty 4

弱智 retarded 2

face 3

 

Q:先请艾老师说下你对中国当代艺术现状的看法或印象。

A:我不能装作很了解这个事,虽然我一直在北京,经常参与一些策展,我们有艺术文件仓库,有很多艺术的朋友,但是我还不是很了解这个东西,但这两年好像很热闹,而前几年好像都没什么人去搭理它,所以我觉得好像它是一会儿发高烧,一会儿发冷的状态,我觉得可能像是这样,因为现代艺术这一块实际上时间也是很短的,中国实际上虽然有它的现代生活,但这个现代生活在很大程度上是已经由政治的经济的特征定下来的,是一个已经是什么样的体制下的国家了,那么这种个人表达自由政治背景生活条件,以及文化艺术社会中的作用可能,我觉得基本上都是已经限定下来的了,那么通常所称的当代艺术,实际上它能浮出水面,也只是近五、六年的事情,而之前很多人了很多事情实际上都是处在一种半地下的状态的,就是说只是一个很小的,没有被公众话语所关注,对社会的影响实际上也只是在非常小的范围内的,一旦浮出来之后,它主要是在国外的很多展览报导甚至拍卖,好像搞得很热闹,但是这些并没有涉及到这些作品生存环境和所表达的社会形态含义,这些问题探讨并不是很多的,所以它还是一个非常奇怪的结构,但是我们也不能说任何结构是否就是合理的,比如说有的是树,有的是藤,有的是自然界生猛的动物,有的是寄生的动物,而它们都有其自身的合理性,所以尽管中国当代艺术它不是主动有意识地去和这个社会建立某种关系,但是实际上它也反映了过去这几十年的一些问题

Q:你觉得它反映的是一些什么问题呢?

A:反映了中国近几十年中的哲学美学伦理学的彻底解体,新的甚至探讨的可能都还没有建立,因为这个社会仍然是处在大面积的或者主体地否认事实,或者说不承认一些基本的事实,在很多问题上几乎是没有争论的可能,它离民主社会还是很远,虽然它有极大的自由,但这种自由只是建立在旧体制瓦解上的自由,是没有能力控制下的自由,并不是一种很主动的自由,这些都给艺术一些特征

Q:那你怎样看待现在公众对当代艺术的接受方面?

A:我觉得没有什么真正的接受,它只是成为时尚的另外一个门类,杂志、报纸谈到这些问题的时候,你可以看到,它就只能三句五句的谈,但没有一句能够谈到点子上,也不能够深入下去,我觉得这个事儿挺可怜的,就有点像弱智了,中国当代艺术真是扮演了一个弱智角色,当然它有很好的艺术家,有从开始到现在还在很有意思的事情的艺术家,但是这些艺术家,他们探讨的方式都没有得到主流社会认识,甚至连了解也谈不上,现在基本上就是乱七八糟的吧。

Q:那你觉得你参与策划展览之类的活动能否对这种乱七八糟的状况有所作用呢?

A:现在中国展览很多,但是一点帮助和意义都没有,它变成了一些摊贩,就是说像你经常看到的一些摆摊的,一条街卖一样的东西,互相叫板,互相竞争,我觉得这个是为市场设计的,跟艺术没什么关系,完全是为市场设计的,那么这些展览,你仔细看看这些策展人,有几个是像样的?都是心怀鬼胎,怀着各种各样的目的,我觉得这是中国的学术界和知识分子最让人看不起的一点,就是总体不要,整个儿就是彻底的公开张扬不要,这也是少有的一件事,但是啊,就像中国人说的志短,说得太准了,“”还好听点,实际上就是人都很“”了,没什么问题,但它只是一个借口

Q:你刚才讲到市场,那请谈下你对艺术市场的看法。

A:什么东西都能卖,艺术这么高雅的东西当然也能,因为能卖就主要是为了装饰有的家,那么艺术品就成了一个交易的货品的东西了,这个本来挺正常的,只是这个比例有多大?就是在整个大的文化环境当中,它是否变成了唯一问题,是否脆弱到只要它一出现,其他东西就都消失了?我觉得这个是中国的一个很大的问题,当然……我自己这样看,这个事闹成这样挺好笑的,因为好像你这个事的理由都变了,这个东西让你生活的原则和理由都发生变化了,最后就变成好像转换成另外某种价值了,太多人谈论关心这个问题了,如果你不是一个艺术家,只是一个投机商,这个就很正常了,如果你还是一个创作的人,或者说你本来是一个觉得有话才去从事这个行业,觉得对一种方式兴趣——而不是说简单的财、资金和地位可以替换你的那些最早的东西,就不正常和奇怪了。现在我感觉好像都在谈这一块,是挺烦的一件事,市场本身就是不正常的东西,从股票到名牌定的价格,市场本身是无可非议的,一个东西卖五分和卖五千块和卖五万块都是无可非议的,只是说在这个市场背后,这个产品本身的其他价值是否被这个市场价格给彻底冲淡了?这是一个问题

Q:那你自己感兴趣的其实是什么?

A:说老实话,我没有什么兴趣的事,比如我并不是说不喜欢商业这一块或者说对别的什么东西感兴趣,我确实没有太多兴趣的事,可能是我还是比较被动吧,当然总的来说,艺术是我比较兴趣的一个行当,本来我比较感兴趣是因为这里的人比较不功利,比较还有自己的特征,还活得你是你我是我的,但是现在呢?你可以发现,这个艺术的人跟隔壁卖菜的农民没什么差别,上市之前抖点水啊,称的时候再抖两下,我觉得都差不多,这是让人觉得挺无聊的一件事,其实我才不在意这件事,我也不搭理它,比如这个国家是死是活,我也不太在乎,只不过你问到这个问题,就像你问我今天的天气如何,什么沙尘暴啊或者刮风啊,但是这种事又不是你能控制的,这只是国家的一个现状

Q:讲一讲你的博客吧。

A:博客很有意思,待会儿就把给你拍的照片放上去,然后很多的人我也都不认识,反正他们一点击就看到了,我就觉得这个是很直接现实同时又是很幻觉的一个事情,所以我就一直在这个事。

Q:就是说它是一个你传播你自己信息的途径?

A:我觉得信息时代是人类遇到的最的一个时代,是第一次给所谓的自由个人意志技术上提供了可能,在这之前,人类一直是在黑暗当中或者是在独木桥上,或者是在一个必由之路上,那么这个信息时代第一次让人有可能自己或者和愿意一起的人,这在过去是没有的,所以我觉得我们应该是很有兴致和很有机会进去这么一种状态,就是说它有几点是非常重要的:自由地表达个人方式。这听上去虽然很俗套,但是这个是很重要的事情,包括交流可能,包括把社会的力量重新地施以影响吸收运用可能,这是很了不起的一件事情。

Q:你觉得在艺术上有没有地域的中心边缘之分?

A:我觉得不存在,尤其是在这个信息时代网络时代就更不存在了,这是人类第一次有机会和有可能把这个传统价值,即所谓的传统的原始、中心和权利彻底瓦解,这个可能性确实是人类挣扎了很多年以后突然蹦出来的,这是一个很了不起的东西。

关系[guan xi] relation

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1. 现在很多艺术家做的东西感觉题材宏大、很尖锐,其实也跟社会没有很大的关系,有的只是很表面关系

Many artists nowadays produce works with grand, acute subjects, which in fact might not have anything to do with the society, or it might have a superficial relationship with the society at best.

(摘自徐坦对段建宇的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Duan Jianyu)

2.我觉得理想的艺术家,和他的艺术观人生观都有关系

I think an ideal artist bears some relationship with his view on art and life.

(摘自徐坦对冯梦波的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Feng Mengbo)

3.艺术家跟大众永远在形成一种独特的关系

The artist and the public are always form a special relationship.

(摘自徐坦对汪建伟的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Wang Jianwei)

4. 因为是一种挑战,也是一种公共关系或者跟社会交往关系积累,如果没有这种积累,我的《帝国时代》就根本没办法做,

It’s a challenge, as well as the accumulation of public relation or social relation. Without this accumulation I couldn’t have created my “The Age of Empire”.

(摘自徐坦对郑国谷的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Zheng Guogu)

采访对象:段元元

采访时间:2007118日上午

采访地点:于广州维他命创意空间

 

关系 relationship connect have anything to do with has to do with 18

现实 realistic reality realism 11

社会 society social 10

有意思 fun 6

思考 reflection 6

生活 life 5

想象 imagination 5

意义 meaningless 5

个人 personal 3

媒介 medium 4

方式 way 6

塑料花 plastic flower 2

垃圾 trash 2

自己 self own 19

 

中国 Chinese China 9

西方 Western 3

卖画 selling works sell painting sales works sell 12

身份 social status 3

开玩笑 pranks joke 5

不一样 different differently 6

chickens 6

 

 

Q:与观众沟通

A:通过画面的展示,可能对我来说是比较合适的一种方法。我的画面可能不是很好看,可能技巧不是很高,可能会引起别人反感——这种“反感”就已经是一种触动了。我觉得画面说得太了就没有什么意思了,它应该是比较个人私密的,但是你还是要和周围发生关系,你还是要别人走进你的画面,比如画大白菜,观众面对这些东西会比较容易走进去。我肯定不会只顾自己,不会像是写了一篇日记,然后把它起来,因为是艺术

Q:你觉得艺术市场对你的创作有没有什么影响?。

A:市场肯定对一些艺术家有很大冲击,当然也不能说是完全不好的,但画家卖画肯定对他们是有影响艺术家当然很好,关键是艺术家在卖画热潮中,在“市场”很好的时候,是否还能保持住自己艺术向前冲的状态?是否还能坚持自己当初的艺术理想?它肯定是双刃剑,有好处也有坏处。就我自己而言,当然偶尔也卖画,但目前对我来讲最重要的还是怎样把画画好,怎样在艺术上有发展。虽然绘画有很多局限性,但我觉得还是有很多尝试的余地,还是有潜力可以挖。

Q:你觉得现在很多展览上的作品跟市场方面有什么关系吗?

A:现在很多展览背后都有很多操作,都是为了卖画收藏,以前我不太清楚,现在我慢慢观察就可以看出来,我后来就不大喜欢参加这种展览了,兴趣不大,当然也不排除一些的展览——一些学术价值比较高的展览,这些就可以参加。

Q:艺术作品价值

A:就是要跟当下生存状况有关,对它有所思考,不管用什么媒介,但要从自己角度来发出自己的声音。我的画好像很多人看不懂不喜欢,其实我的画是很明白的,只是我没有说得太而已,它就像是通过打比喻开玩笑的比较间接的方法,图式上不是很传统的技法,有时像是坏画之类的,有点乱七八糟破破烂烂的。我比较注重想象力,不是很现实主义地表现一些东西,而是喜欢加些想象进去,就是瞎编乱造,很多东西掺杂在一起,有些想象力,有些开玩笑,有些一本正经,都是有可能的,但我可能是很有礼貌地在开玩笑,我把大白菜这些元素放在一起——画面还是不能说得太清楚,可能这些神秘的东西才是它有意思的东西所在。我觉得关注现实的方法很多,它不是说你直接地从身边周遭中拿过来用,比如说我画空中小姐,她也算是生活中的现实,只是我加了一些想象进去,比如把她放在一种很荒诞的环境中或放在旁边,我觉得画画这种东西还是比较一点的好,而不是很实在很直接的“现实主义”,我看到很多艺术家,往往喜欢把自己的东西做成雕塑,但我觉得画面是的,把它做成雕塑就会显得太实在了,那毫意义。这两年我画了很多关于的东西,因为我觉得它比较,到处拉屎、到处乱跑,而且现在很多东西都可以引伸地叫做“”,它的含义很多。我觉得这就是对现实的一种关注,手法可以很多,发现现实方式不重要,关键是怎样来做作品。现在很多艺术家做的东西感觉题材宏大、很尖锐,其实也跟社会没有很大的关系,有的只是很表面关系

Q:艺术家的角色。

A:我觉得现在艺术家的角色应该是一个很普通工作者,就是把自己的工作做好就行了,这不是说你卖画卖得多好,而是说你怎样从自己的角度出发去把作品做好和怎样去关注生活艺术家现在肯定充当不了一个社会的什么使命,如果自我感觉还好,就是感觉这个工种还比较,不用天天干脏活,还有点身份,还受人尊敬,经常出席一些大小会议,但其实很多作品都是垃圾,而且其实很多人还不知道自己是在生产垃圾,还感觉自己身份。我觉得艺术家和别人不一样是很重要的,现在很多人做作品都差不多,这样就意思不大了。因为扫地也可以扫得跟别人不一样,做裁缝也可以将衣服做得和别人不一样,而艺术家作为普通工作者,也可以画跟别人不一样,从不同的角度做一些比较有意思的东西,我觉得这个很重要,如果只是天天去重复画一些东西,对我来说意义不大

Q:你对中国当代艺术的关键性印象是什么?

A:很,像个塑料花,颜色很鲜艳花枝招展表面堂皇,其实实质没有生命力。我觉得它可以不必像,但它要对社会有点实质性的作用,就是要实在一点。现在大家都比较浮躁,比较看重表面的东西,这跟社会状况是有关系的。但我觉得还是有余地可以做,可能在这种趁乱打劫的情况下反而会有一些的作品出现,这些年来中国当代艺术还是出现了一定程度上的活力,这给中国乱糟糟的状况提供了很多方式可能性

官方[guan fang] officical

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1. 而现在政府也在搞双年展当代艺术变成了一张,变成大家都可以利用的和值得利用的东西了,所以像一个口号,一个面孔,出现在国际上面孔,这个时候一场与官方游戏开始了

And now governments are organizing biennales, contemporary art has become a card in their hands, something that everyone can and should take advantage of. So it’s like a slogan, like a face, a presentation used to impress the international community, and here’s when the game with the official starts.

(摘自徐坦对孙原,彭禹的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Sun Yuan, Peng Yu)

采访对象:孙晋、彭尧

采访时间:2007129日中午

采访地点:于北京798孙彭工作室

 

社会 society social socially 24

反应 reaction (feedback response respond) 8

(不)接受 accept acceptance (take in rejected) 7

普通(人,观众) ordinary (people / audience) general public 9

公众 general public 2

观众 audience(s) 22

关系 relation relationship has something to do with 11

机制 system mechanism 8

机构 organization 5

美术馆 museum 8

 

独立 independence 2

政府 government 5

政治 political 3

自由 free 3

 

和谐社会 harmonious society 9

do make 40

do engage in tackle 1

中国 China Chinese 31

西方 the West western 19

发展 development drifting 5

成功 success successful 10

商业()  commercialization commercial commercially 4

游戏 game 4

舒服 comfortable 3

学术 academic academics academically 11

农民 farmer 5

强奸 rape raped 2

通奸 adultery 2

生效 effectiveness effective 2

市场 market marketing 5

投机份子 opportunitists 1

 

 

Q:你们刚才说到你们的创作在公众的反映,也说到外界的自然的影响,我觉得你们早期的作品中与社会相关的比较少,而现在的作品就比较强调社会影响方面的。

A:(孙)其实所有的材料来自社会,只是有些是来自于社会比较不公开层面,有些是比较知名的东西,比如新闻题材,社会题材,其实所有的题材都是社会题材,只不过是被关注程度不同的问题,另外,我觉得我同意现在所有题材都是来自于社会,可能更多的还是来自于我们自身,但是就是说它在跟社会对应的时候,你需要一个合适的转译转换,这时候你在选择材料的时候就会选择一些相对典型性的,就是说这个问题你好像不能分割着来看。

(彭)早期,更年轻的时候,跟社会之间的关系没有那么复杂,或者没有很融入社会中去,所以你的作品和选择材料就不是那么地社会,但我觉得什么都可以作为材料,你越成长的时候,跟社会发生的关系越来越,你自然就会选择社会中你有兴趣材料,所以我认为题材决定的。

Q:在很多展览中看到你们的作品,都是很强调和社会的关系,你们觉得在中国和在西方,观众对艺术的接受和反馈是有区别的吗?

A:(孙)是不一样的,但是我觉得这个不一样更典型的是体现在前些年,就是2000以前和左右的时候,那个时候中国开放时间还不长大部分人当代艺术这个东西持接受的态度,看的时候过于的心急,而现在好像就是越来越趋同西方的和中国观众现在知道有一种(中国当代艺术,知道有一帮人奇怪,他在看这个东西的时候首先反应就是:行为艺术!这个东西就变成一个词儿了,他对一个东西不理解的时候,他就行为艺术了,他心里头有一个,他可以把它归类,他就接受了。

(彭)以前西方的更加关注的,认为的东西是跟政治对抗的东西,那就是跟整个中国意识形态关系,因为那个时候还不够开放,上海还没有开始双年展……,所有的西方观众都会从政治角度去看你的作品中国观众两部分,我觉得这两个部分是特别有意思的,这两部分,一部分是懂艺术的人,或者就是跟艺术,跟文化有关的,一部分是跟文化没有关系的人,跟文化有关的这部分人恰恰不能接受这样的作品,而且提出很多抗议或者指责,而跟艺术文化没关系的人,包括警察……我的展览有一次被封过,我跟很多警察片警居委会这些普通人过天,他们都来展览,都觉得太有意思了,

而现在政府也在搞双年展,当代艺术变成了一张,变成大家都可以利用的和值得利用的东西了,所以像一个口号,一个面孔,出现在国际上面孔,这个时候一场与官方游戏开始了

A:(彭)在九几年2000以前,有的时候发生一件事情,你可以静下心来观察周围的事情,细心地去体会每个人变化,而现在,尤其是这些年,整个的艺术气氛都是特别浮躁的,我都心情体会外界的一些变化,而且现在情况比较复杂,……就像我们生活798这个院子里,这完全就是一个旅游区,你很难定位,但我们确实还在这儿工作,现在政府也在当代艺术了,有很多投机份子这个事情画廊疯狂加入,每这个院子都有可能出现十几家画廊,然后整个中国当代艺术价格国际市场膨胀,我觉得很多艺术家他们都找不到自己了,所以不像那个时候的情况那么单纯了,地下就地下,就搞艺术,现在真是在和所有的人合作,你在越来越多地跟他们玩这个游戏游戏越来越复杂了,进入第二关!

Q:那么一般的观众是不是比以前更能够接受当代艺术了?

A:(彭)我觉得现在是他们可能容易接受了,但是相反的给他们带来的东西却是少了,以前他们会去体会这些人为什么要这样,现在他们有了一个概念,就像给了你一个,叫“行为艺术”,就说“啊,这是行为艺术!”就不用再想了,对于普通观众来说,他们丧失了这种东西,当他们一旦被给予了一个可以安全解释的之后,实际上就丧失了自己去思考过程

(孙)情况还得分两头说,从艺术家方面来说,实际上他也在逐渐摸清观众脾性 90年代的时候,像“泼皮”那种,我觉得如果那个叫早期艺术家的话,感觉就是任我行,因为公众不接受,他就越来越走向极端,但是现在很多艺术家可能都意识到了,就是说你要想任我行的话,你首得让观众觉得你行,所以它的两方面就开始往一个地方走,然后它找到一个协调点了以后,就是双方都能感觉地比较自由比较融洽,就是和谐社会了。那个时候就是改革开放突破,就什么事都现在就是很多事格局已经划分好了,就是看怎么协调了,跟国家形势一样,这个和谐社会艺术来说也是一个比较大的问题,当然任何时代都有问题,但是现在和谐社会问题西方差不多,因为西方都是和谐社会,所以艺术家在里面既自由难受,现在我就看中国什么时候能够达到西方一样,也有这种感觉

(彭)就比如说,有国外比较大的机构要来北京美术馆,其实刚开始我听他们这样的消息很兴奋,因为终于有很好美术馆中国北京当代艺术了,但很,几天以后我就意识到一个危机,我不知道这个东西来了以后,对于北京,对于整个的中国当代艺术的状况是一个帮助,是一个推进,是推进它朝不好的方向,还是方向健康的方向还是不健康方向?这都是有两个方面的,就是他们想的是把一个很正统西方美术馆机制拿到北京,在国外展览的时候,你可以看到整个西方的那种很腐朽美术馆机制给整个艺术带来的没有活力的状况,这就是那年很多中国艺术家去参加威尼斯双年展的时候他们很轰动原因,他们觉得整个中国当代艺术西方有力量的,其实是不是真的有力量?其实我觉得也不是说有没有力量,而是他们发现中国才有可能性,这个可能就是潜力能量,让人可怕的东西,而在西方呢,那种机制让大家觉得就像在孙原所说的和谐社会里,他必须要在缝隙,这样玩来玩去的话,就变成大家都在耍小聪明,我觉得这样人生就太不灿烂了,所以说,这样一个机制中国来,对艺术家的影响,我觉得就是应该从两个方面来去考虑这个问题。你把一个死了的东西拿到来,它是不是丧失了好多可能?就是它让你加速规范化,当然很多西方美术馆批评中国艺术家或者说整个中国市场的时候,就说他们太不规范化了,但这就是中国特色,这是中国魅力所在。我比较喜欢生活出现很多意外,就是你眼看着中国当代艺术向完全知道的,没有任何意外方向发展我觉得这时候艺术家要用什么样的活力刺激这个东西呢?

Q:经济环境的变化会影响艺术,艺术家与观众之间的关系,但其实有很多艺术家做作品不是做给观众看的,是吧?

A:(孙原)这个问题实际上是知识政府步调一致,就是和谐社会产生实际上是经历了一个和平演变过程的,就是商业经济参与实际上是促成了这个和谐社会,就是让你在关注自己和关注受众的同时共同参与参考规则经济规则,你不能不承认所有人都会把经济上的成功作为衡量成功标准艺术家自己也会这么观众也是,它是一个参考值,所以这个经济作用在里面了一个协调工作,就逐渐地发生了和平演变,所以我就说这个和谐社会的产生并不是纯粹地由艺术家观众造成的,它肯定是有另外的东西来介入,才能促成,那怎么保持一致?怎么达到一个共同协调点?很多时候都是会把经济因素作为一个参照点的。

(彭)市场学术根本就是两回事,因为市场做市场学术的有做学术,所以你要我们搞这方面的人去谈那个也谈不了。

(孙)有时候“学术学术”,我也不完全认同,在考虑学术的时候你会考虑成功的问题吗?当你考虑这个问题了就存在一个协调点了,所有的因素一起达到一个最佳分配比,它就以一个成功面貌出现了,它也会让你的学术一些动力,得到一些可应证的东西,这个成功不仅指商业层面的,而是指各个层面上的成功,如果没有这个成功参照的话,学术无所谓方向,无所谓价值,就是它没有统一平台学术实际上都有一个平台,它存在一个成功标准,就是生效商业的和学术生效,实际上都是产生一种价值的。

Q:你们在意那些对你们作品的反馈意见中的非议的东西吗?

A:(孙)其实我在意的就是观众反应

(彭)但是他们反应成什么样不重要,他一定反应就行了。我们不注重他们的反应赞扬批评,只注重他们反应

(孙)或者说这种东西最好混杂的,就是说既有强奸又有通奸嘛,如果说强奸它又有高潮了,而通奸却又带有被动性,就是它是很混杂的比较好,我不太赞成纯粹强迫的东西,但是一定要有反应

Q:我觉得在北京、上海和在广州很大不同的一点就是对权力意识的不同,在北京是最强的,在上海薄了一点,而在广州则更弱,你们对这点有什么看法吗?

A:(孙)我对你说的这个权力问题感觉不是特,我不知道有没有权力,但是我对这个问题的看法就是说不管有没有权力,你感觉很舒服愉快了,因为你处在别人权力机制,你不是处在最高层上,你在这很愉快,你在这儿,那我觉得就可以了,它相对来说跟农民企业的感觉还不一样农民企业它是权力第一,甚至就连吃饭都是权力一部分,那就是如果拿不到这个权力的话就没有生存余地了。……我说的权力也是指的那种支配被支配关系,而不是那种权势的东西。

(高)科技[(gao)ke ji] (high) technology

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1.我认为张江高科技园区也是借了国外的一些特点,来这样发展起来,现在发展市场也很不错,原来是叫上海张江高科技园区,现在是叫上海张江高科技开发区,把上海几个不同方向的开发区统一命名为上海张江高科技开发区。

I think Zhangjiang Hi-tech park learned from the foreign experience, during its development. Now the development has a quite good market. It used to be the Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Garden, but now the Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Development Zone. To combine several development zones with various orientations in Shanghai together and name it, the Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Development Zone.

(摘自徐坦对陈斌的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Chen Bin)

采访对象:陈斌张江某动漫产业公司的高级管理人员)

采访时间:2006815

 

国外 abroad foreign

动漫 animation 3

市场 market 3

事业 产业 industry business 5

创意事业 creative industry 3

生活)      live living life(residential zone) 9

技术 科技 technology technological

高科技 Hi-tech 4

发展 开发 拓展 develop development 9

开发区 园区 zone garden 14

高科技开发区 Hi-tech Development Zone(garden) 6

科技园区 technological zone (garden) 4

朝阳 Blooming 3

外教 foreign teachers 4

培训 train 7

交通 transportation traffic 3

中国的特点 Chinese characteristics 1

国际化 international 1

操作 operate 1

韩国人 Korean 1

招商 to invite investment 1

先进 advanced 1

交流 exchange 2

机会 chance 1

平台 platform

经验 experience 2

品牌区 zone brand 1

挑战性 challenging 1

原创 original 1

定位 orientation 1

高端 high-end 1

孵化 incubating 1

 

 

 

 

非常有挑战性他是一个朝阳产业有许多未知的东西,As a blooming industry it is quite challenging, with many unknown things.

包括技术方面国外已经很成熟了,The technology aspect has been fully developed abroad.

但如何发挥中国的优势做出一些中国的动漫市场,The point is how to develop the animation market with Chinese characteristics.

大家都知道中国市场很大,We all know that China is a huge market

中国怎么在这方面获得大的蛋糕,To gain a bigger share in China,

实际上是如何结合中国的特点,is to take the Chinese characteristics into consideration,

把中国动漫事业创意事业做大、做强,and to develop a bigger and stronger animation industry or creative industry.

朝阳事业有很多未知的东西,The blooing industry has many uncertain things,

也需要很多一些相关的服务,一些孵化、一些推动作用,and needs many supporting services and incubating forces.

我们平台有多个原创项目在进行。On our platform many original programs are going on.

我们基本采用国际化操作模式,Basically we operate in an international mode,

包括现在正做的一个项目,也是与动漫相关的产品,like one program going on now, also an animation-related program,

也是我们孵化的整个项目,带头人是一个韩国人,is initiated by us as a whole, with a Korean head.

我们采用了一些先进国外理念,甚至好的一些国外项目,We have used some advanced foreign ideas, and even some foreign programs.

国外结合起来,我们定位比较高端,Our orientaion is an international high-end one,

这也符合我们张江集团的目标。which also fits the target of our Zhangjiang Group company.

包括文化产业公司的招商,并不是谁都可以进来的,Like the invitation investment of cultural business was not given easily.

他也有很多的条条框框,It has many restrictions too.

他的目的就是既然要做这个文化创意事业就要把他做好,做到前沿 The aim is do the best, advanced cultural creative industry.

这就是区别。This is the difference.

 

我们本身对这一块有制作培训,We have manufacture and training to this.

培训主要是针对技术培训,That’s mainly technological training,

因为艺术很难在短的时间内得到好的培训,For art cannot be trained in a short time,

除非科班出身或慢慢熏陶,but after academic education or long time edification.

它那边主要是针对技术层面上,We have already had three terms of training class,

我们现在已经办了三期培训班,which maily aims at technological aspect.

每一期是有两个外教,两周直接上课,Each term there are two foreign teachers for two-week teaching,

而不像国内, different from many other cases home.

国内现在培训现在很多,他们说是外教,Many of the native training classes boast foreign teachers,

最多也就给你上几个课时也就不错了,but only have a few hours give by them.

但是我们实打实每一期 有两个外教,While we honestly have two foreign teachers each term,

就是想把国外的一些先进经验、方法尽快的引到国内来,in order to introduce the foreign advanced experience and methods as soom as possible.

毕竟国内出去也不方便得到交流机会也不是很多,After all, it is not easy to get chance go abroad for exchange,

出去的话手续办理很麻烦, with troublesome procedures.

所以我们就把它引进来了,So we introduce it home.

目前都是针对社会, Later will be some enterprises and colleges,

下一步我们会针对一些企业、院校,Up to now the training is targeted at the society, and school.

他们来培训的同时也带一些讲座来进行交流,who will bring their own lectures for exchange while receive training.

 

我感觉张江更多是在做成一个科技园区,I think Zhangjiang is more like a technological zone,

它提供了很多的交通,which provides much traffic systems,

但是目前来说,它不是给你提供一个完全生活环境,but not fully a living place for now.

相关的基本的生活设施是有的,It has the basic living facilities,

但它走的路子不是要创造一个很好的生活,but does not mean to be a perfect residential zone.

它提供一个很方便的创业环境,It provides a convenient surrounding for entrepreneurship,

但它不是一个生活, not for living.

我没有做过这方面的比较。I have not compared in this way.

我认为张江高科技园区也是借了国外的一些特点,I think Zhangjiang Hi-tech park learned from the foreign experience,

来这样发展起来,during its development.

现在发展市场也很不错,Now the development has a quite good market.

原来是叫上海张江高科技园区,It used to be the Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Garden,

现在是叫上海张江高科技开发区, but now the Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Development Zone.

把上海几个不同方向的开发区统一命名。To combine several development zones with various orientations in Shanghai together and name it,

为上海张江高科技开发区,the Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Development Zone,

把他作为一个品牌区推广,and publicize it as a zone brand,

至少到目前为止,它是很成功的, is quite successful, at least up to now.

所有的科技园区也好、开发区也好,我认为这一点都是有一个共同的,All the technological gardens and development zones have one thing in common,

它不是给你提供一个很丰富的生活区,It provides not a rich residential zone,

因为它的周边也在建一些居住区 for it has residential zones around.

,但我感觉它不是纯粹的为了生活交通方便,It is not for purely convenience of life or transportation.

开发区开始之前首先就有了一个地铁站,At the very beginning the development zone build its subway stop,

各方面就是为了能很方便出行,for a convenient outing.

我认为如果一个开发园区,又配备了一个很好的生活园区的话。I think a development zone together with a wonderful living garden,

我认为它会削弱一些开发区的一些拓展,would weaken its progress as a development zone.

因为你的生活很好、园区方便,If you live well, have a convenient garden,

交通又相对的好,路也很宽,车也很少空气, easy transportation, wide roads, few cars and fresh air,

如果这几点都有的话,很多人会来,自然会影响科技园区一开始的定位,then many would come and affect the original orientation of the technological zone.

您能否给我两三个关键词? Can you name two or three key words for me?

朝阳激情踏踏实实Blooming, passion, down-to-earth.

感情[gan qing] feeling

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1. 女性就肯定不自信不敢去说这些问题,能说的只有她自己、她自己的感情,所以很多女性做的东西可能更个人化私密性男性就不太能理解了。

Women, for sure, are not confident and afraid to talk about those topics, they can only talk about themselves and their emotion. That’s why works by female artists tend to be more personal and intimate, thus difficult for men to understand.

(摘自徐坦对胡晓媛的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Hu Xiaoyuan)

2.我觉得尤其是跟我个人情感感受有特别直观的关系。很多作品有很大的共性,毕竟是我一个人去的,但每一个作品最初的情感来源是很复杂的而不是特别单纯的一条线。

I think they are directly connected to my personal emotion and feeling. A large portion of them share a lot of similar things, after all they are all done by myself. But the emotional sources of each work are complicated, it’s not a simple thread.

(摘自徐坦对胡晓媛的访谈   Excerpt from Interview with Hu Xiaoyuan)

采访对象:胡小玉

采访时间:200721日下午

采访地点:于北京阜通西大街都市心海岸雅园

woman female 41

女性 female 32

女性主义 feminism 4

man 24

男性 male 18

男性艺术家 male artists 8

社会 society 38

生活(活着) life living lifestyle 33

个人 personal individual 21

感觉 (觉得) feeling 21

兴趣 interest 10

不一样(不同) different difference 9

责任 responsibility 9

关系 relationship 7

生命 life 5

感情(ganqing) emotion 3

情感(qinggan) emotion emotional 4

方式 way approaches 19

自己 self own personal 13

现实 reality 3

介入 intervention involvement 7

 

时政 political 1

自由 freedom 1

 

无聊 bored 3

空虚 empty (spiritually) 2

addicted 2

打交道 deal with 3

有意思 interesting 8

没意思 out the meaning 5

刺激 stimulation stimulated 2

 

 

 

Q:你觉得艺术与生活之间的关系是怎样的?

A:艺术与生活没有那么多矛盾,也不用把它想得那么有逻辑、有道理,我感觉很多事情是很顺其自然的,都可以有条理地搭在一起。我觉得社会可能是在选择一些靠边的、异于大众准则的东西,我最开始排斥这个社会,按理说我也是被排斥的,但是特别奇怪,也许就因为我在做艺术社会最终把我从特别边缘的地方拉回来找回来了,但如果我是从事一种对社会介入非常高的职业,可能我很早就已经被淘汰掉了。当你从社会获利之后,虽然不想,但必然要去承担一定的责任,等于说我开始妥协,开始靠近社会,它可能也给予我更多,但我说不准之后的方向。原来我是排斥社会,现在也还有些许排斥,但是现在社会并不排斥我,这种关系微妙,但是我不知道,如果有一天当我变得非常接纳这个社会,它会不会反过来排斥我?说不清楚,反正都是随机的。我特别惧怕跟这个社会有太多的接触,我从来不用助手,如果我交给助手去做,我活着就更没意思了,我得自己去做,才能觉得起码那段时间我过得是有意义的。我不会、害怕跟人打交道,前段时间我抑郁症。如果按照心意选择,我觉得我适合去尼姑庵,但我不能那样,而且——比如说我明明不想选择像现在这种生活,但我可能就有现在这种生活,本来是排斥的,被动地接受了以后,就有,很,很矛盾。但是船到桥头自然直,现在我开始变得让自己麻木无所谓一点,靠别的东西推我,也不主动去争取,我就在家等现成的,来了之后,只要我喜欢,就努力去做。做艺术最开始对我来说实际上是一个存在方式、理由,觉得比别的有意思。现在带来一些认同之后,就刺激你——因为在做很多事情的过程中慢慢会失去兴趣刺激你就会把这个兴趣的时间延长,就好像一个抛物线,有这些东西介入之后,它可能拉得更长。

Q:市场对你的艺术创作有什么影响吗?

A:没兴趣。只是比如说有人有兴趣要来收藏,我会考虑我的东西应不应该给他?别的我不会考虑,我没有有条理地去研究、了解,也不关心它,反正眼前的生活状态我觉得还行就行了。

Q:你作品的针对性有哪些?

A:我觉得尤其是跟我个人情感感受有特别直观的关系。很多作品有很大的共性,毕竟是我一个人去做的,但每一个作品最初的情感来源是很复杂的而不是特别单纯的一条线,最初都是生活中的某一个点触动到了我,然后我把它延伸开了,所以不是特别容易说清楚,我能说的肯定都是跟我个人生活相关的。我现在有的时候也挺疑惑,前段时间一个的朋友就质问我,他觉得好多“女艺术家——当然我从不这么称呼自己——好像从头到尾关注的就都是那点破事儿情感渊源。当时就在争。现在就我自己来看,我所有发源的点还是从我自身来的,如果碰巧你非要拿这个来指责我,唯一的原因就是因为我的确是个女性,现在我能关注到、能涉及到的、我兴趣的也就是这些东西,现在你能在我全部作品里面看到的比较清楚的脉络就都是从我个人来的。我原来没想过这些问题;我不知道别人怎么回事,但我看我自己,我知道自己是怎么回事。很多男性艺术家都跟我说根本看不懂我的作品。我没有特别详细地去研究过中国女性主义的历史,但我觉得女性从一定的时间段来看,很多东西有很大的变化、发展。比如说我妈的所有意识就是我和我弟,我姥姥的意识就肯定更是孩子老公;但我现在的感觉就是我不想要孩子,我自己都不知道生命是怎么回事,我怎么去承受?我现在老在想生命到底有什么意思?这可能是我做作品最初、最原始的一个动力,因为我得找意思,我就自己不停地每天在那着。这是个男性社会艺术家艺术家,往往眼光非常客观正常;但艺术家艺术家,就老说看不懂,其实特别容易理解女性是很被动地去选择这样一种表述方式,因为她所能涉及到的生活范畴非常狭窄,这种评判本身是没有平等标准的;对很多社会时政市场之类的问题,男性占有率和涉入的深度都比女性要高得多,他当然有一个非常自信地表述自己立场能力女性就肯定不自信不敢去说这些问题,能说的只有她自己、她自己感情,所以很多女性做的东西可能更个人私密性男性就不太能理解了。中国好多我喜欢女性艺术家是非常传统的,延续了很“中国人”的一些本质特征。问题不在于技术,在于传达什么,是否有一个完整的体系,是否对我有触动——这种感觉很多时候只存在女性之间,很难用文字或语言来清楚地描述,但是我能感觉出来,它太过于个人感受化,过于枝节、末端、细微。这个社会也在改变,现在有很多男性艺术家,或除去男性艺术家以外的一些男性,开始关注女性的一些方式,开始考虑自己不能理解的一些女性方式;我觉得50年以后肯定有更大的改变,可能人口的比例也变得更有利女性女性的关注和介入可能会更多,这个社会的比例或者占有的权利就会相对调整

Q:你觉得艺术家的作用是什么?

A:我没有什么责任,不知道起作用是什么感觉,但肯定很多人希望自己能起到作用,这是一种野心,但具体应该起到什么作用?说不清楚。只是,艺术家对于一些东西的表达方式或者说是存在方式不同,但包括艺术家跟艺术家之间也不同。我认为好的、触动了我的艺术家,他的作品一般都是来自于自己生活印记,从这一点来讲,我觉得所有的人都没有区别,只不过个人生活痕迹不一样,呈现出来的结果一样

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